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Aie, aie, aie, my english in LOS!!!


pattaya127

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This topic really gets me.

 

I'm in the camp where you don't talk down. I know these people who just revert to pidgeon English and it's so damn irksome. Gawd damned patronizing as well. They'll never learn the difference. Even English teachers do this to their students. That's the worst!

 

Now, I'm not talking about hitting them with fancy schmancy words like loquacious. Just as GTG said, simplify spoken English to short simple GRAMMATICALLY correct sentences. Limit complex and compound sentences to a minimum, if at all. It's correct English. Easily understandable as pidgeon English.

 

There is one school of thought about learning language through immersion where you don't talk. You just sit and listen for hours and hours and hours before you begin to learn grammar and extraneous crap. It's got a lot of followers and demonstrated extremely good results (AUA in Thailand uses it for learning Thai - not like that's an end of argument proof, but they are relatively large and people do take the class). Keep giving Thais crapping pidgeon English and they'll never get anywhere.

 

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gummi,

 

There is one school of thought about learning language through immersion where you don't talk. You just sit and listen for hours and hours and hours before you begin to learn grammar and extraneous crap. It's got a lot of followers and demonstrated extremely good results

 

Agreed. When I asked the BG I met in Pattaya how she learnt English, she said that she just sat in the bar and listened for a long time, then finally she started speaking. Her English was excellent - correct use of tense, appropriate prepositions etc.

 

My former question to GTG wasnt meant as a criticism of her stance, merely a reflection of the fact that I believe that there is a middle ground - use longer sentences only when absolutely necessary. I also cringe at some of the pidgeon English I hear Westerners using, but its an easy habit to slip into.

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To be fair to the BGs they also come in contact with alot of non native speakers as well.

It's bit of a vicious circle really BGs use broken English because Westerners use broken English and Westerners use broken English because BGs understand broken English and so on.

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I see what you are saying, however, I feel that the word "talking down" is not appropriate in this situation. Nobody is trying to talk down to anyone, just trying to make conversation by whatever means it takes. You may feel at bit differently about this because you reside in Thailand, the casual tourist is not here in a teaching capacity.

And by the way I would also expect that to the majority of tourists coming to Thailand english is not their mother tongue. And I don`t need to mention any names, but there are a number of european countries where the general command of english lets something to be desired to say the least.

So what you may hear as foreigners speaking down to people may actually in some situtations be their best effort.

I would also say it depends on the situation, suppose you stop a tuktuk driver coming from the northern region of Thailand, you want to go from point a to b. His english is practically non-existent - non unheard of in many areas as you know - now if I didn`t speak thai I would have no problems mutilating english to the limit to get the message through if possible.

This is a one time encounter, I want to go from a to b as quickly and conveniently as possible.

 

Keep giving Thais crapping pidgeon English and they'll never get anywhere.

 

True. However, it is my feeling that the crapping pidgeon english is there already. It has not been imposed upon them by foreigners but by low standard teaching and the immersion in say bar enviroments certainly doesn`t help one bit.

The worst offenders here are definitely the bgs themselves and newcomers pick it up from them.

 

Cheers

Hua Nguu

 

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Okay, you can't lambast a non-native speaker for not speaking properly. My comments don't refer to these people.

 

As for talking down... That is exactly what a native speaker is doing when reverting to pidgeon English. Assuming they just ain't smart enough to understand proper English. The difference between simple GRAMMATICALLY correct sentences and pidgeon English is minimal in most cases and thus DOESN'T inhibit communication. Thus I don't by the communicating at whatever means necessary from a native English speaker.

 

You run into problems with irregular verb tenses (i.e.: ate and eat). In most of the cases the girls understand the meaning but don't know the rules for applying it. Saying "Yesterday I eat pad see ew" doesn't help.

 

You say the worst offenders are bar girls and the new ones pick it up from them? I beg to differ. The worst offenders by far are native English speakers who know better but yet say "I go bathroom. We go eat, go movie".

 

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Hi,

 

P127, one thing I hate most is when someone speak to me in the darn broken English, feel the same for Thai or French. You are not doing these people a favor by using broken English, it is more harm actually, IMO.

 

Speaking slower and use simpler vocabularies help and if you speak in good English, you give them a chance to learn the GOOD English, don't you think?

 

Cheers!

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Hi,

I really AGREE with you. What is it about learning English in such a bad way?

 

I am in IT management team in the USA and the worst thing ones can do to themselves to learning incorrect way to communicate. I have an MS (in the States) from a Univ. which will not give the degrees to people who cannot comunicate well in English, however, I heard that some colleges, ones can buy the certificates.

 

Please, allow me to thank you for doing what you are doing for the Thais and Thai students. :D

 

Cheers!

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Jasmine,

 

I have an MS (in the States) from a Univ. which will not give the degrees to people who cannot comunicate well in English, however, I heard that some colleges, ones can buy the certificates.

 

The issue of 'paid education' came to a head here in Brisbane several years ago, with academics claiming that they were under duress to make 'allowances' for students from non-English speaking backgrounds, particularly Singaporeans. The generally held belief (at least at my Alma Mater) was that if a student paid full fees for a degree (Australians are subsidised by the Federal Government, and they rely on the high proportion of overseas students to fund programs..), they were largely guaranteed a 'Pass'. Australia has an excellent global reputation for its exacting standards of tertiary education, so you can imagine the turmoil that this 'pay-for-play' approach was causing within our academic community.

 

The other major complaint from both staff and students was plagiarism. The argument was that students from countries like Singapore were taught to work 'co-operatively' on assignments, and this led to the unfortunate situation where several students submitted identical work. The universities have been forced to make it clear to all new arrivals that this is simply not on, and I believe that this is no longer a major issue, at least in terms of students claiming that they werent aware of the rules.

 

I have no objections to lecturers making small allowances for the fact that English is not a students first language, but I wonder if they would be as lenient on a 'Helmut Schmidt' as they would on 'Song Pak Moon' if the two papers were placed in front of them ?

 

My view is : if you study in a University where English is the primary mode of communication, then your English should be of a high standard (obviously, your own institution felt the same way), and you should be prepared to compete on the same playing field as everyone else. Failing that, I'd like my old Maths subjects reassessed, as I am not a native Calculus speaker :)

 

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Hi,

 

[color:"red"] My view is : if you study in a University where English is the primary mode of communication, then your English should be of a high standard (obviously, your own institution felt the same way), and you should be prepared to compete on the same playing field as everyone else. [/color]

 

I agree. Having worked in the places that use English only all my life, I still learn a new word now and then. When I stay in Thailand more than 2 weeks without speaking English, I miss it terribly, but I don't miss speaking Thai. However, if I don't read Thai for a period of time, I just cannot stand it.

 

Cheers!

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