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jasmine

: Thank you my friend and answer all the questions

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Elef,

 

 

 

Waw, what a thread! (didn't we loose sight of Thailand here?)

 

 

 

But could you elaborate on the Dutch/Belgian example please, what do you mean?

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Thanks, JJ. Of course these cultures had their own education, their own religion etc - the Spanish simply werent happy with anything that didnt resemble their way of life, and they lauded people like Cortez : a man who would have been known by one title today : 'war criminal'.

 

 

 

I agree that some CHRISTIANS, who just happen to be Catholics, do great things for mankind, but the Church itself is about self-aggrandizement and accumulating material wealth from the consciences of older members of the 'flock' (baa-baa).

 

 

 

I was raised as a Catholic, but I've seen too much hypocrisy to consider setting foot inside a Catholic church again.

 

 

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I didn't say colonization was good. I said it was successful. Without being pedantic there is a difference eg Purachai has successfully imposed a 2 o'clock curfew (although not everywhere).

 

Re Spanish colonialism, I didn't mention that but as you brought it up I think that Argentina has an acceptable standard of living.

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I did qualify my post by stating "some" cases. I didn't make a sweeping statement that colonization has been successful in every case.

 

 

 

Yes I know about the American war of Independence. And your point is? That's what colonies do. Rebel. You won. We lost. End of.

 

 

 

The choice of USA obviously hit a raw nerve so here are two less controversial examples; Malaysia and Singapore. Both are Asean tiger economies.

 

 

 

I know the difference between colonization and occupation by victorious armies as I pointed out in the original post.

 

 

 

Semantics aside what have the Romans ever given us except for irrigation, code of laws, roads etc. (apologies to Monty Python).

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Sukhumvit said :

 

 

 

I think that Argentina has an acceptable standard of living.

 

 

 

LoL ! Dude, have you picked up a newspaper LATELY ?? They are completely and utterly f**ked !

 

 

 

It seems that they were living in a fools paradise - pegged their currency to the US dollar without the fundamentals to back it up. Lots of artificially 'rich' people : now they cant even get their money out of the banks.

 

 

 

Many Australians were initally disappointed when our dollar shrunk to half the value of the greenback, but it has been a blessing ! Our exporters have done a roaring trade, and our economy has defied the world trend towards little or no growth. Not bad for a bunch of so-called 'convicts' ...

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The Inca were a warlike tribe that originated around Cuzco. They were a small tribe until Mayta began to expand by attacking and looting nearby villages, with forced resettlement of large contingents from the conquered people. Inca technology was more developed in agriculture and archietecture than neighboring tribes, but nothing compared to European technology. Rituals included human sacrifices. Flourishing, yes, if you use the standard of conquering other tribes.

 

The Mayan culture reached its peak around 900 AD. By the time the Spaniards came, they were in decline-the great cities were vacant and overgrown. Their religious rituals included human torture, mutilation, and sacrifice. Flourishing, no.

 

They were great by standards of Indian culture, but not by standards of Western culture. Was the Spanish conquest of the Inca any different than what the Inca were already doing to their neighboring tribes?

 

And no, the Spanish did not exterminate or practice genocide against the Indians either. However, at least in America, we gave our Indians some casinos and bingo parlors.

 

 

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Tom said :

 

 

 

Their religious rituals included human torture, mutilation, and sacrifice

 

 

 

As opposed to the SPANISH Inquisition ??????????????

 

 

 

Tom, I cant turn two wrongs into a 'right', but I still stand by my earlier conjecture that Spanish colonisation seems to be a one-way ticket to poverty. No, I'm not an authority on the subject - jsut an Aussie who is eternally glad that we got the British system, whatever its faults :}

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They were great by standards of Indian culture, but not by standards of Western culture. Was the Spanish conquest of the Inca any different than what the Inca were already doing to their neighboring tribes?

 

 

 

Tomc12,

 

 

 

[color:blue] The primary debate in this thread was caused by a poster who inferred that Thailand is not a great country or prosperous as a result of not having been colonized by a European country. They did not reap the rewards of European culture, education and government. This in a roundabout way makes it difficult for Thais to adapt to Western culture.

 

My argument is that European colonization was no gift and in fact most former European Colonies indigineous populations are generally worse off as a result of that colonization and in poor condition economically and politically. The true beneficiary of colonization IMO was the colonizer because colonization is a form systematic pillaging. Colonizers generally enslave, segregate, drive off,kill, or use the indigenous peoples for labor. How are they better off? Especially when the culture is primarily wiped out?

 

 

 

Some posters argue that the USA is a great former colony, I say that is bullocks because the Native American today lives on reservations and is damn near extinct as a race. Aside from being in history books and a couple of casinos, the Indians have never participated econimically or politically in this country. How are they better off today?

 

European immigrants built America and then rebelled against their European motherlands they are the only ones who have benefited.

 

 

 

Your history lesson on Incas proves nothing. Where are the descendants of the Incas today? How have they benefited from the colonization of their lands? I have not been to Ecuador, Chile, Boliva and Peru but I am sure that the Incan descendants in thos countries are economic and political powerhouses in the world arena.

 

As I said earlier I am sure dozens of former European colonies would love to trade places with Thailand today. color=blue>

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