Guest Posted August 11, 2002 Report Share Posted August 11, 2002 [color:blue]"the selling of women and children is very real, and many places enjoyed by boardmembers in countries like cambodia are living from that system. "color=blue>In the country, where I am living, pimping is very common. Ladies have someone who "protects" them and for this they have to give all their money. Huge amounts of debt are buit up, without a (realistic) chance, the debts can be payed back or reduced. In fact, the ladies have to go with men, but without them or their families having the benefit. Ladies are sold from one pimp to another. This is common in many countries all over the world. This fact is well known, but I never heard of a punter, that refuses to go to the ladies because of their pimps. Additionally, I never heard someone in the media or somewhere else, suggesting, a punter shouldn't go to these ladies because of the pimping. Another common thing is the trafficing of ladies from the former eastern countries. They are lured to the west, promised well payed jobs. In fact, their passports are confiscated and they are forced to work as prostitutes. If someone does a little research, human trafficing can be found all over the world. So, how will you make the dicision, what is "A4A" and what is "bad prostitution"? It can not be made, except if you are trying to ban the subject of prostitution at all. Btw, I would be very happy, to have a discussion about Cambodia, that will stay on topic (i.e.: the subject, the first poster mentioned) and that will not be high-jacked to a different subject. I suggest, If someone wants a discussion about a specific subject, he can open his own thread and everybody will be happy to discuss. Thank you very much for the assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2002 Report Share Posted August 11, 2002 Hi Fly, >> but when do i see a proper statement of the moderators of this board concerning indentured prostitution? i haven't seen that so far. >> Here it is: This is a board about Sanuk in Thailand. The regional section is concerned with Sanuk in other countries. Please note that the term 'Sanuk' does not mean or imply, any acceptance of any of the unfortunate and deplorable situations that you rightly condemn. Theretofore I would ask that posters restrict posts to 'Sanuk' and take arguments and or promotion of and or condemnation of: Underage, Pedo, Indenture, Torture or other non-Sanuk topics to an appropriate NGO or other forum where the issues may be dealt with, hopefully to some benefit for the poor souls affected. We don't really need this in the rules, else we'd have to list what else we don't want to see in here, aerospace materials discussion, vegetable culture, leatherworking etc etc etc Having said that, this thread hasn't really gone of the rails yet and I'd like to keep it on track with discussion about the news reports and the effects the news may have on A4A as DB put's it. Cheers Coss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2002 Report Share Posted August 11, 2002 Hi GTG, nice to see you again. >> I heard that when the girls first arrive at the brothel they usually are 'tamed' by being tortured (kicked, raped, whatever the pimps could think of.) That creates fear for escaping to the girls. They are also threathened to be killed if they don't behave well and be nice to customers. All of these are done so there are no need for chains ! >> Whilst you make valid points, I must repeat a part of my repy to Fly, and here it is: This is a board about Sanuk in Thailand. The regional section is concerned with Sanuk in other countries. Please note that the term 'Sanuk' does not mean or imply, any acceptance of any of the unfortunate and deplorable situations that you rightly condemn. Theretofore I would ask that posters restrict posts to 'Sanuk' and take arguments and or promotion of and or condemnation of: Underage, Pedo, Indenture, Torture or other non-Sanuk topics to an appropriate NGO or other forum where the issues may be dealt with, hopefully to some benefit for the poor souls affected. We don't really need this in the rules, else we'd have to list what else we don't want to see in here, aerospace materials discussion, vegetable culture, leatherworking etc etc etc Having said that, this thread hasn't really gone of the rails yet and I'd like to keep it on track with discussion about the news reports and the effects the news may have on A4A as DB puts it. Cheers Coss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2002 Report Share Posted August 11, 2002 >The regional section is concerned with Sanuk in other countries. Please note that the term 'Sanuk' does not mean or imply, any acceptance of any of the unfortunate and deplorable situations that you rightly condemn.< my problem here is, that in the case of cambodia for example, that the "sanuk" and the topic of indentured prostitution are very deeply connected. whenever i read a tripreport or some advice on km 11 or similar brothel villages, i can't get the sight of my eyes of the girls who are sold, kidnapped and tortured. i do make the same offer to you that i made to anyone else here. meet me and i will give you further proof of what and why i am making these posts which sound so anal to many. it might change your perspective on the term "sanuk". >Theretofore I would ask that posters restrict posts to 'Sanuk' and take arguments and or promotion of and or condemnation of: Underage, Pedo, Indenture, Torture or other non-Sanuk topics to an appropriate NGO or other forum where the issues may be dealt with, hopefully to some benefit for the poor souls affected. < personally i believe that this board here is a very good way of showing the other side. i believe the majority of boardmembers are people who are very concerned about the welfare of the girls they are playing with, and can more directly affect things than any NGO. i have regularly e-mails by posters and lurkers who encourage me to keep on talking about the cambodia issue. just yesterday night i met a poster who went many times to cambodia, but does not anymore due to moral concerns. that comes partly because of me, but also partly that after many trips he saw the other side directly, and in a very raw way. so, what shall i do, give way to some people who constantly argue with me, or the many who do give me support? for me, the answer is clear. i feel obliged to the many people who plan a trip to cambodia to give information on the things a tourist rarely sees or experiences. the very dark realities of cambodia are not that obvious for a punter. if it would not be for me, the only things posted on cambodia would be how great the sex is, how "sanuk"... that would be a bit too one dimensional for the otherwise very intelligent board here. >We don't really need this in the rules, else we'd have to list what else we don't want to see in here,< given the realities in cambodia, and that the unknowing sextourist most definately will get involved in those realities i think that these kind of rules should be put in place. why do you have clear board rules against the topic of pedophilia? because you don't want to be put into the same box as those guys. personally, i believe that indentured prostitution is as detestable. giving space to advertise km 11 and the other cambodian brothel villages is condoning places who work with the system of indentured prostitution, are not possible without that system. that is not "sanuk", at least not for the women involved there. would the board tolerate posters advertising to go to the infamous brothels in mae sai? i don't think so. every time i saw somebody posting positive about those brothels, there was a shitstorm coming down on him. why is it that when ever i have a post on the cambodian situation, the shitstorm comes down on me? those places in cambodia, km 11 etc. are at least as bad as those in mae sai, if not worse. and on a much larger scale. i can only repeat my offer here: meet me, i will show you proof, and lets discuss it in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 12, 2002 Report Share Posted August 12, 2002 Or some of you are THAT naive or just don't want to SEE the reality?????? ------------------------ i think you missed the point, GTG. members react to the tone of a post, not to the truth in it. People may believe in God and Jesus teachings, still be put off by an irate and loud preacher using a megaphone to tell them they are blind and deaf to His Teachings on an american street. The effect is usually inverse to the admitted goal, and this is what you are witnessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 12, 2002 Report Share Posted August 12, 2002 i have regularly e-mails by posters and lurkers who encourage me to keep on talking about the cambodia issue ------------------------------ why don't they do so, themselves? That is what the board is for, and certainly not a pulpit for the oft-repeated fair grievances you, me and some others may have about Cambodia's scene. I agree with the moderator, we address the topic by ADDING infos, opinions to it, not by arguing about the same point that has been so hammered in the past few weeks. At some point, one has to ask oneself "din't i say that already 10 times?", control one's emotions and fulfill the purpose of this board which is definitely not about shouting ad nauseam in a perceived wilderness. In other words, lighten up! Do not let yourself be petitioned by others to be a "porte parole" of cambodia's woes, as this board is hardly the right format to keep beating on the same subject ad nauseam. you can impart knowledge on many facts you witnessed, that's good, and you will be read, but God forbid someone erects himself as a plebiscited authority on anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2002 Report Share Posted August 12, 2002 still, my question is: there are boardrules against flaming, pedophilia, drugs, politics. why are there no rules against the advertisement of places well known for indentured prostitution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2002 Report Share Posted August 12, 2002 >why don't they do so, themselves? < maybe some of them are not really interested in getting the shit i am getting since i posted about the cambodia issue, and that was not only since a few weeks, but since i started posting about one and a half years ago. >At some point, one has to ask oneself "din't i say that already 10 times?"< yes, and it is very tiring to repeat myself. but, as the other side does not seem to get tired to repeat their posts how "great" places like km11 are, i will have to keep repeating myself in lack of a boardpolicy on indentured prostitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 12, 2002 Report Share Posted August 12, 2002 still, my question is: ------------------------------ Fly, you admitted yourself that the scene in Thailand is clear-cut between horrid brothels and farang scene, and just remember this is a Thailand board foremost. cambodia is being touched on and that gives you plenty of oppportunity to voice your concerns, why enlarge it to NANA rules + forbidden to speak about places in C that have indentured prostitution as spotted by Fly. Your claims are right, no doubt, but the topic is only peripheral to Thailand, OK? Addition: KS rules are to either keep the board on a civilized discourse, or to avoid subjects that may cause him and the board undue supervision (read: problems) with the local authorities, not to force a moral slant to the board. This, we do ourselves, as posters, as topics arise. There is nothing here that goes against taking a moral stand, proof are your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 12, 2002 Report Share Posted August 12, 2002 yes, and it is very tiring to repeat myself. but, as the other side does not seem to get tired to repeat their posts how "great" places like km11 are, i will have to keep repeating myself in lack of a boardpolicy on indentured prostitution ------------------------------ Why didn't i bet money on your likely answer to my post? Could have made a bundle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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