Nasiadai

I am quite surprised. QPP seems to be a nice place for day time fun. Look here (google streetview): https://www.google.de/maps/@13.7314757,100.5651316,3a,75y,272.82h,89.52t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sgxaxdOPXNIfaTNEZ7UXWKw!2e0 I am looking forward to see the bars and the girls of QPP … and my beloved Singha beer. I am counting the days … round about 40 days.

Hi guys, StoneSoup and Cavanami, many thanks for your infos. Very helpful.

Washington Square does not exist any more. It was a fantastic location for day time fun. Washington Square was between Soi 22 and soi 24, Sukhumvit. The Queen's Park Plaza has replaced the WS as a place for day time fun. QPP must be somewhere along Soi 22, I think. Where is it situated and which bars are there? Please: Names of the bars, prices for beverages, girls, barfines, attitude of the girls etc. What kind of male guests operate in these bars? Are these bars recommended? Many thanks in advance.

บางà¸à¸­à¸à¸¡à¸´à¸ªà¸‹à¸µà¹ˆ, Kop khun kraph for your encouraging words and cheery wishes. I love Nana Plaza. When I entered Nana Plaza some 24 years ago for the first time, when I made my first experiences in the bars with the girls - I confess it plainly - I was highly delighted, I was in paradise. Here I found what I missed in Deutschland and and in the resort areas and vacation destinations of - for example - Mallorca and Ibiza: Girls - girls – girls All nice and pretty, all with a fantastic attitude, all willing and ready for mischief, all enchanting and charming. Within 2 minutes I had the most beautiful girl in my arms, kissed and embraced her, enjoyed her devotion and her body, hugging her and fondling her sexy body. And suddenly she whispers in my ears: “I want to go with you. I am a good girl. I'll make you happy.†I was in paradise. "Good old St. Peter" so I thought "you have to endeavour with your heavenly paradise when you want to outdo Nana Plaza." บางà¸à¸­à¸à¸¡à¸´à¸ªà¸‹à¸µà¹ˆ, What does that mean? Can you give a translation, please? I am curious. Nasiadai alias Bakwahn Hamburg Bangkok Düsseldorf formely PC-Support and Networkadministration

Many thanks for your kind words. I will heed your advice and let my melancholy at home. ok. YimSiam, you are in 6 days in Bangkok? I hope we get brand new information from you: Drink prices at Nana, the girl's prices, prices for barfine, attitude of girls etc. I hope we get some personal impressions, experiences, reports from you. Nasiadai alias Bakwahn Hamburg Bangkok Düsseldorf formaly PC-Support and Networkadministration

Coss „Did you previously post here? Are you from a Nordic country?“ Yes! I am from Deutschland. I am one of the „oldest“ guys here. Im am one of the first members when Khun Sanuk founded this board (around 1995). We came from the ASFO-list. And yes, I did post here previously: http://t2.thai360.com/index.php?/topic/61946-the-thermae-a-crushing-defeat-for-the-americans/ and here: http://t2.thai360.com/index.php?/topic/60570-what-is-going-on-in-bangkok-nightlife/ Nasiadai alias Bakwahn Hamburg Bangkok Düsseldorf formaly PC-Support and Networkadministration

jitagawn "So sorry to hear about this. Not sure what to say but bless you." Thanks for your kind words. I am recovering steadily. Every week there is something better. Nasiadai alias Bakwahn Hamburg Bangkok Düsseldorf formaly PC-Support and Networkadministration

Hi guys, I will come to Siam end of November 2014. That means 5 – 6 weeks to go. My plan is to overwinter in Thailand: End of November, December, January to end of February. But I am a special case now. Well, this time I am not the sanuk and fun-seeking boy. I come as a melancholy observer of the scene, which himself can no longer actively take part in the sanuk, in the fun. I had an apoplectic stroke with devastating consequences in December 2012. The right half of my body is severely paralyzed. I cannot move my right leg freely; I limp. I cannot move my right arm. The fingers of my right hand are completely paralyzed. ! The stroke has made me older by many years ! I cannot work any longer. I am retired now. My new trademark is my crutch. But I don't want to bother you.

Flashermac, Grinding her ******** what? Grinding her pussy or her boobies into your face? Whatever, it must have been great pleasure for you. There was and there is one rule, one principle for this board: safety first for the privacy and the anonymity of the girls. But I remember very well: when the intense discussion raised about this lady here on this board, Khun Sanuk gave up very quickly. I never had the pleasure to enjoy her goodies.

Dollhouse??? My answer: Clinton-Plaza with Bar Monica in reference to the Clinton-Lewinsky affair. There was one very special girl we gossipped viciously about: the girl # 33. Oh my goodness. She was slim and stacked, nice big boobies. She was everybody's darling. She liked drinking and partying. I watched her dancing in her bar, the Dollhouse. She was a bit self-indulgent. But she could allow this attitde for she was the absolute superstar in her bar. There always was a queue to buy her a lady drink. The queue for barfining her was even longer. She had a lot of regular customers and fans. When Clinton-Plaza and all the bars got closed the Dollhouse moved to Soi Cowboy. There she danced and she continued turning men's head and squeezing money out of their pockets. Later I lost her track. Does anybody know something about her whereabouts? She must be 38 – 40 years old now.

Khun King Kung, you don't read my text with the necessary attention. I wrote: The Thermae: a crushing defeat for the Americans and for the rest of us, too. I am involved too, as well as all the other (white) farangs who used to inhabit the Thermae. Flashermac, yes I know, you can find voluptuous girls with nice boobies in several MPs But these parlors are relatively expensive. 90 minutes, 2 hours 2000 or 2500 Baht or more. Not bad. Now the wiseacres and the notorious overpayers say: a st with a gogo girl from NEP will cost just as much. I can say only: We have reached western price level with these prices for st. Oh yeah! Charly alias Bakwahn Hamburg Bangkok Düsseldorf

I did not come to Siam all the years to fall in love with an exceptionally beautiful girl. I have not even come to boast with attractive ladies at my side. As we say in our language: Ladies, who would not even look at me with their asses at home in Germany! Do you understand what I want to express? I am not an „optical-fucker“, looking for the superstar, superstunner, supermodel, the mind-blowing girl etc. In most cases these girls are starfishes, don't want fucking, demand moon-prices for their bad services, are runners. I come to Siam for erotic adventures, for sexual pleasure. I prefer girls with nice big tits, whith some meat on their bones, who are pumpui, voluptuous! Gorgeous voluptuos, yes that's right. Girls who have to offer carnal desire, carnal lust for my greedy, randy hands. I know that these kind of girls – ladies with big tits, hooters, boobies - are hard to find in Thailand. We all know that it is a hard and arduous business to find Thai ladies with big boobs. Round about 95% of the Thai girls use to be flat chested, have little tiny tits. When God distributed the boobies, our Thai girls were just on vacation or on the toilet, have been standing in the last row and Godfather ran out of material … I don’t know; oh what a pity! Boobs are rare to find in LOS. But in Thermae you could find some big titted gems occasionally. Anyway, there were more such girls than in the Gogos of NEP. On top of that they were much cheaper and offered fantastic GFE and "I-take-care-you-feeling". One of my favourite songs is “I like big tits†by Joe Walsh; one of the guys of the EAGLES. I like big tits You see 'em on the street Left and right I like big tits...that's right I try to look away but I can't resist Oh yeah! Charly alias Bakwahn Hamburg Bangkok Düsseldorf

King Kung's attempt to make this defeat in retrospect a kind of victory, is a laughingstock, is an absolute joke. We all know such reasoning strategies by our politicians, who try to reinterpret a defeat to a victory in retrospect. "We have - generous as we are - left the Thermae voluntarily to the Asians, because there are only old, fat, ugly women. The Japs may like to have." „.. ghastly vermin and reptiles“ are his drastic, aggressive words. Well, well, I don't want to discuss about the quality of the Thermae-ladies. This fact remains: we have lost a fat pasture. Sorry for my bad English! I learned it at school, but that is some 45 years back.

The Thermae: a crushing defeat for the Americans and for the rest of us, too. Preliminary note: I was the last time in Siam about 4 or 5 years ago. I'll come back end of November 2014. I want to overwinter in Siam: November, December, January, February. Well, but this time I am not the sanuk and fun-seeking boy. I come as a melancholy observer of the scene, which himself can no longer actively take part in the sanuk, in the fun. I had an apoplectic stroke in December 2012. This stroke has caused some paralysis of the right half of my body. I must do everything with the untrained left side now. But ok. no problem. I don't want to bother you. My main concern: The good old days The Thermae was an institution in Bangkok nightlife scene. Thermae is said to have once belonged to the Bangkok police chief; so it was rumored by local expats over and over again. It was open to 6 o'clock in the morning. Only the infamous coffee shop of the Grace Hotel Soi 3 could compete with such opening times. In the 70ies and 80ies it was the meeting place for local expats, Vietnam veterans and holiday makers mainly from the Anglo-American world. In the course of the 80ies, more and more Europeans mingled with the guests: Germans, Austrians, Swiss, Dutch, Swedes, Finns etc. In the nineties and the first years of the new century the Thermae has been was one of my favorite hunting grounds. I loved Thermae with its girls, girls, girls … pretty and beautiful, ugly and ungainly, young and old ones, slim and pumpui ones; all kind of ladies. Wonderful. All were charming, smiling, and willing; 1000 Baht long time. How did Sailor once sing? So hop on, the world is swinging. Don't sit and twiddle your thums. Get up and meet those pretty Girls Step on, the Thermae keeps swinging. Get up and find those pretty girls. A German guy wrote on a very lively German Thailand board, that he spent his whole vacations in the Thermae. 20 days, 20 nights. Yes. The atmosphere was fascinating. The men: women ratio was approximately 1:4 to 1: 10. It was always a girl's paradise. The selection was huge. I have spent there blissful evenings and nights; I laughed with the girls, drinking, dancing, partying. Oh memories, sweet memories. The Thermae has even been immortalized in the novel by Canadian author Christopher G. Moore "A Killing Smile". There it is "Headquarters". In this novel, Moore celebrated the Thermae; he has erected a monument to the Thermae. The final act: The descent, the "white" disaster, the decline of the white man: There has been a shattering defeat, a shellacking for the white Farlangs in the Thermae in recent years; especially for the Anglo-Americans. The Japanese and the nouveau riche young Asians have swept us Farlangs from our own best hunting grounds. We, the incumbents, the bosses - what is the English word for “Platzhirsch� - the alpha males or top dogs have chickened out and have, without resistance, abandoned this rich pasture. “Wir haben buchstäblich den Schwanz eingezogen und haben uns feige verdrückt.†= We have litterally drawn in our cocks and have skived off cowardly. That is the final curtain. The same will happen in Pattaya. I am sure. The times they're a changing. Charly alias Bakwahn Hamburg Bangkok Düsseldorf

Good informations, good job, Flashermac, But what is it worth? Fantasia is Hot Lips now G-Spot is Candy Land Lollipop is now renamed Suckers Pretty Lady is called Spellbound now „The old Voodoo has had a slight name change to Hoodoo.“ And we know now that Las Vegas and Tokyo Player have changed names to Wild Thing. Etc. … Nice. Now we know that some bars have changed names and that means those bars have new owners, tenants, managements. But much more interesting is yet to know: What about the girls? What about drinking prices? Barfines? Prices for lt and st! Girls attitude? Services? BUT: The really substantial question is, why have so many bars changed hands? Why did sell the old operators their bars? With what hopes the new tenants have bought? Do the new operators have new, better business ideas? They have a lot invested, they risk a lot. Will they get their money back? I'll come back to NEP in November 2014, in 4 months. I'll go up the stone stairs on the right to the first floor and I march straight up to DC-10 and Sexy Nights and then I'll be back in my old paradise and I start dreaming and indulging in reminiscences. Admittedly these bars are small and shabby, but I always had a good time with animated atmosphere and aroused and thrilled vibrations. Are these bars still run by those old Thai ladies? Those bars had always some nice and sexy girls with good attitude. The prices for beverages were the lowest at Nana, and the girls wanted to have 1500 to 2000 Baht long time. In Sexy Nights and DC-10 I always have been the king of cuddling and fondling; enjoying the girls, their tits, the baby fat. Oh memories, sweet memories. Charly alias Bakwahn Hamburg Bangkok Duesseldorf

Many thanks Mr. Munchmaster for your answer with so many useful informations. I'll be back in town in November 2014 and then I visit Soi 22 and have some beers in those bars you mentioned. I look forward to see those bars in Soi 22 and Queens Park Plaza. They seem to be a real alternative to the overpriced bars from the NEP and SC.

Huumlar, Coss, Patpong, Soi Cowboy, NEP, and in general lower Sukumvhit is much too expensive for the normal western holidaymaker now. One can spend an evening at NEP or SC – yes, of course – but you have to pay attention what you are doing and how much you are spending: how many drinks you drink how many lady drinks you order can you barfine a nice gogo girl? Bf about 800 – 1000 Baht and long time 3000 – 4000 Baht or even more. Not bad! A short calculation for one evening at NEP, drinking, barhopping, enjoying the girls: * 15 drinks for me, Singha, coffee, soft drinks = about 2500 Baht * 5 lady drinks = about 800 Baht * bafine for a girl = 1000 Baht * LT for the girl, let us say = 3500 Baht * a snack together with girl in the night – before moving to tthe hotel – about 200 Baht Together: 8000 Baht for a night out and a girl in Euro: about 190 Euro in US-Dollar = about 258 Dollar oh my goodnees! Not bad. Bakwahn Hamburg Bangkok Düsseldorf

Where is Khun Taffy now with his "New Square One Pub"? It is a shame; Washington Square is gone now for ever. Where to go now for day time fun? Are there somewhere comparable pubs or bars? Bakwahn Hamburg - Bangkok - Düsseldorf I'll come back to Bangkok November 2014

Wendella, that is a misunderstanding, but this misunderstanding is on your side! I stated: “Today, how many girls are in the gogo bars? My personal estimation: 1700 – 1800 girls.†And now – after reading the postings of you (Wendella), Flashermac and YimSiam with their references to the many ladyboys – I would like to improve my statement. I state more precisely now: “ My personal estimation: not 1700 – 1800 girls, but 1700 – 1800 persons work in the bars nowadays.†Persons = girls and ladyboys! 1. Kathoeys Yes, it is a horrible thing with the kathoeys! Kathoeys infiltrate and conquer more and more the bars of the plaza. In my opinion the kathoeys become a massive plague, which I very much regret. Hey! Herr Flashermac, University Lecturer, are there any investigations, studies and researches that deal with this phenomenon? How many boys of a birth cohort undergo a sex change? And why? Is there an increase in numbers of sex changes in recent years? And what might be the reasons? What is the social and family background of the boys who undergo a sex change? What are the social classes, these young men come from? Do they come from the lower classes or the middle classes? Do they come from the cities or more of the rural areas? Questions and questions and no answers. By the way: The Iran – the Islamic Republic of Iran – has the most number of Kathoeys, not Thailand. The Iran is dominated by the males and nevertheless there are many boys and young men who change their sex. Incredibly and inexplicably for me. 2. The relation Girls to kathoeys in the bars The number of girls falls in the Gogo bars and the Kathoeys increases. My explanation: The bars cannot find enough girls who want to work in a bar. The supply of young women and girls diminishes. Why? 1. There are more and better jobs in the Thai economy 2. The decline in the birth rate in nearly 30 years. Fewer women are available. In this gap push the Kathoeys! And the bars have no other choice than to take them. PS: I hope you can understand my “school†English. Sorry for that!

In the years 2001 - 2003 the plaza reached its highest increment, its greatest stage of extension. There was no space left: rien ne va plus. There were about 35 bars and – according to my experiences – with about 2.000 girls working in the bars. The Nana Plaza had reached its highest point, its peak. Roughly, right? Today, how many girls are in the gogo bars? My personal estimation: 1700 – 1800 girls. Interesting are two issues, two facts, two developments: 1. On Soi 4 there are more and more (big) beer bars with many girls. 2. And there is an increase of freelancer girls on Soi 4 and on car park of Nana Hotel The beer bars are cheaper than the gogos in the plaza. Cheaper means: the drinks are cheaper, the barfines and the girls are cheaper for short time or long time In my opinion the beer bars are a response to the overpriced GoGo Bars and so are the freelancers! These two less expensive offerings (the beer bars and the freelancers) are used by the Sanukers, they are accepted by the guys. Guys avoid the very expensive Nana and prefer the less expensive offer. Is that right? What is your opinion, guys?

Part 3: Pattaya A short look at Pattaya. 20 years ago Pattaya had about 25 gogo bars. Today maybe 70! 75 or 80? The numbers of beer bars increased too. According to my calculations and experiences in the beginning of the 1990s there have been working about 10.000 girls in Pattaya; in the last years maybe 15.000 or 20.000 girls. My personal estimation. But: What began in Bangkok, spilled over to Pattaya a few years later . Prices exploded, went through the roof; for beer, beverages, barfines, girls. Nasiadai alias Bakwahn formely PC-Support and Networkadministration Hamburg Bangkok Duesseldorf

Part 2: Nana Plaza First I give you a concrete example: the Nana Plaza in Bangkok At the beginning of the 1990s there have been about 16 to 18 bars or so; mostly gogos; and there was the legendary Woodstock bar, the famous music club. On the left side there was the Swiss restaurant Matterhorn and on the right a travel agency and many free and empty spaces, “black holesâ€, empty spaces. On the third floor there was the Nana Guest House with short time rooms, and opposite a dubious massage parlor. Bars like Sexy Nights, DC-10, Spider’s Web, Hogs Breath, Farlang Connection etc. were relatively small, a little bit shabby, but beverages and lady drinks, barfines and the girls were cheap! The atmosphere was great and the girls willing and had great attitude! Singha beer 50 to 60 Baht, lady drink same, barfine 200 to 300 Baht, ST 500 Baht, LT 1000 Baht. According to my experiences and approximate estimate there have been working about 400 girls at that time in the bars of the plaza. All those bars were owned and managed by Thai ladies or by some stranded farlangs. Four, five years later – around 1995 - professional companies (investors) came like the Hollywood Group, the Crown Group, and the Rainbow Group with some money in the back. They wanted to transform the gogo bars into profit centers. The new bars got larger, more modern with a modernistic interior; and many more girls. The result: a wave of modernization, commercialization and professionalization began. In the years 2001 - 2003 the plaza reached its highest increment, its greatest stage of extension. There was no space left: rien ne va plus. In the first years of the new decade there were about 35 bars or more and – according to my experiences – with about 2.000 girls working in the bars. The Nana Plaza had reached its highest point, its peak. The last 4 years several bars went out of business, went bankrupt. The most prominent bar is Carousel Bar of the Hollywood group; one of the biggest with the most girls. The result: Prices exploded, went through the roof; for beer, beverages, barfines, girls. Today Nana Plaza is not a cheap pleasure any more; it changes in a place for “3-weeks-millionairesâ€. And that means: The decline, the descent of Nana Plaza has begun. The decline of Bangkok’s and Thailand's P4P scene has begun.

Part 1: A look back Let us have a look back into history of Thai P4P scene. That is very helpful to explain the confusing situation of today. So let us have a look back in the history of sanuk-tourism in Siam. A short history of the P4P scene in Thailand. It started all at the end of the Vietnam War in the year 1975. While the American troops left Siam, the country of “rest and recreation†for their stressed soldiers, male holidaymakers from the western countries were flocking in and replaced the withdrawing American soldiers. The sanuk scene in Bangkok and Pattaya started growing and developing: More beer bars, more gogo bars, more venues and gathering places for freelancers. And more girls were attracted from around the country coming to Bangkok and Pattaya, populating those venues. Accommodation, beverages, food were cheap and the girls were willing, eager, keen and cheap and more farlangs kept coming. Mainly fro, the Anglo-American world and the German speaking world.

Nana Plaza, Soi Cowboy, lower Sukumvhit A brief review of the history of this entertainment area. Here I repeat what I wrote elsewhere. I have revised the text and updated For those who are interested. For the ambitious reader who wants to look behind the scenes. Preface: I came for the first time to Bangkok and Siam at the beginning of the 90ties; more than 23 years ago. I enjoyed the gogo bars, the freelancer places and the girls. It was so different from my experiences at home in German discos, summer parties, birthday parties and other celebrations and locations where you can meet girls and women. It was amazing: I entered a bar and two minutes later I had a beautiful girl in my arms, dressed in a bikini only, my hands exploring her body, my lips kissing her sweet mouth, enjoying her emotions, her cheerfulness, her smile. An affect-cocktail of disbelief, of high spirits and intense sense of pleasure started shivering through my mind and body. I am still fascinated by the girls-scene on lower Sukumvhit, although today I am an aging boy and handicapped by a stroke. Nasiadai alias Bakwahn formely PC-Support and Networkadministration Hamburg Bangkok Duesseldorf

@ Specialist and Dumsoda Reasons for the increase of prices: 1. Inflation The argument of inflation is important, but does not explain everything. There is an inflation of about 4 % to 5 % per year in Thailand. Roughly. That explains a part of the price rise. Yes. 2. Western incomes stagnate Are wages and salaries increased by 50% in the last 10 years in the western countries? No! Not in the USA and not in Germany. I think that I know the economical development of the western countries fairly, tolerably. 3. The Thai Baht is stabel The Thai Baht is relatively stabel to Western currencies! In 2003 and 2004 I got 50 to 52 Baht for the Euro. I remember that the US-Dollar paid 43 to 46 for the Baht in those years. Today I get 44 Baht for the Euro only. The Dollar 33 only. 4. The positive economic development of Thailand in the last decades Thailand has been changed from a Third World Country into a well emerging nation! The Thai economy has millions of new jobs in the industry and the service sector; well paid for Thai standards; and the economy is growing. So there are more jobs for millions of Thais; for our girls too. These briefly outlined issues make clear that Thailand has become more and more expensive for western tourists. Nasiadai alias Bakwahn formely PC-Support and Networkadministration Hamburg Bangkok Duesseldorf