zigfreed Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Flashermac: [QB]Maybe I'm just odd, but I don't really give a damn about reading about Thai bars. If I want to go to one, I go. If I don't, I stay home ... and maybe read about something else. QB] My exact thoughts. Going to a bar is not exactly rocket science that would require guidebooks and manuals. On the other hand I believe, forums like this provide some good information on Thailand in general and the nightlife in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 Flash & ziggy... How long have you lived in Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zanemay Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 quote: Going to a bar is not exactly rocket science that would require guidebooks and manuals Well Zig, I think a guidebook to the Thai bargirl culture is a good idea. It is really full of pitfalls and a little guidance can save a lot of grief. On the other hand, PD is not the guidebook I would want. It is worst scenario stuff as was said above. In general I think that Leather hits the nuts and bolts of living in Thailand on the head. It is like a photograph. However, when he presumes to analyze Thai thinking he is out of his area. Just attributing everything to pursit of money and saving face seems ridiculous. I think PD should be read only after at least one trip to the Kingdom. The less experienced really could arrive with a prejudice against the people. Especially the lady people. Zane May Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Kurtz Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 I think that "Private Dancer" is one of the best books Ive read on Thailand .The writer gives it to the reader straight,and has obviously indulged in "the scene". The colonel gives it *****stars! I did email Stephen Leather after reading the book and asked him where he got the katoey story from. He said it was from a "guy in a bar"....Im not so sure..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Kev Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 I just downloaded this morning and will take to read poolside here in Cairo, where Thai style Sanuk and bar scene is simply not available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 I thought "Private Dancer " was magnificent.Compare it to "The Beach" Exactly Can I be the lead role,if its made into a film? Who could we have playing the part? Now thats a thought for the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 Big Kev you poor bastard!.... Mind you, you could be in Malaysia......! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 i think that the character development of the westerners was rather well done, the desperation of the lead character was very realistic. but his portrayal of thais, particularly thai men and the thai village is completely wrong. it is a repetition of bar talk, what westerners who never ventured out of the scene imagine thai men to be, but has no relevance to reality whatsoever. the end, as nice as it sounds is also fantasy. there is no way that accident victims in bangkok will be brought straight to the temple. it is law in thailand that accident victims will be brought first to the police hospital for an autopsy. and it is very unlikely that a bullet will not be found. simple research could have improved the book a lot, hopefully steven leather will one day decide to rewrite it. then i think it could become a really good book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2001 Report Share Posted July 6, 2001 I enjoyed it for what it was, a story about a 'sad fuck' who was blinded by beauty and hindered by the difficulties and misunderstandings of a cross-cultural relationship. I also think that S.Leather has a good insight into the Thai mentality and psyche. Do you want to get in their head? Personally I don't really think it's possible. To totally understand a different culture one has to practically re-invent oneself first, ie. throw out all of your beliefs, ideals and everything you have ever believed to be proper and right and start again!.. I do often wonder really what the average Thai REALLY thinks about western morals, attitudes etc.. Cultural difference really can create misunderstandings. Us whiteys (Euro stock) have throughout history tended to have very ethnocentric attitudes, believing that our cultural perspective on life is the correct and only one. Look at our Christian and Catholic missionaries, trying to force their beliefs onto other 'primitive' races whos own 'primitive' beliefs could surely not be correct! We are correct and righteous, this is the way YOU should think, we are right, you are wrong! This kind of attitude still exists with us to an extent. But, having said this, I think that the Thais really have more trouble than we do at trying to accept our attitudes than we do of theirs. Thais are at times more ethnocentric than us whitey. We try and understand Thais. They don't try (nor want to) understand us. It's this closed-barrier attitude and stubborness that makes it really hard to form a trusting relationship with them. Let's face it. They don't understand us, they are WARY of us and because of this they can't TRUST us. It's as black and white for them as this, I believe. The book portrayed this attitude well I think. To the thais we were just the 'dumb buffalo that could easily be led down the dirt road. We were the sub-species to the thais just like the 'primitives' were the gullible and ignorant sub-species to our missionaries. With the book being written in the first person it really allowed you to see the same situation through the eyes of a rather motley crew. It made for an interesting way to view a cross-cultural relationship and their difficulties from all these different perspectives from people who are vastly different in character and background; 'Pete' being the intelligent and idealistic but sheltered middle class guy. Big Ron, the uneducated, straight-shooting, street-wise working class guy... etc etc... In in all a good read and it was well written. Admitedly, it was a bit extreme though, in that you started to not believe in the characters so much. How could 'Pete' be so stupid? was what I kept thinking. Really, even as a 'newbie' here in LOS I would have never found myself to be so blindly gullible and helplessly love-lust by a such a lass as Leather described. I think anyman with half a brain would've have been walking very early on. She, the 'Joy' character, was well overdone also. Some of her little dialogues reeked a little of a bit too much intelligence for a girl of her stock. I am not convinced that these girls think on any higher level about what they do. They just do it. I think the little anecdote that the character 'Big Ron' related in the book about the frog and the scorpion summed up the whole psychology of the book; Cultural instinct is what moves us all. cheers, back to you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2001 Report Share Posted July 6, 2001 well written Dan,But how many of these "sad fucks " do we see or hear about all the time. Some of the stories I hear would be hysterical if they were not true. Check out some of the characters you see particlarly in Pattaya......not unlike some of the characters in the book at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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