Steve

My guess is she's seen the political landscape and probably agrees but sees more harm than good in the bill either for her politically and/or the state. I also don't think if it was passed how any state can win if eventually if it said that Obama's birth is not clear. My reasoning is if Hawaii says he was born there and issued a document sayiing that then it has to be accepted I would think if its for the office of President. An Arizona office, they can probably get away with it it, but its the states that verfify birth and a lawyer can argue that point that if another state is basically saying another state's document is not legal when its accepted federally as legal because that document was used to get a US passport, etc. Also if the state says they don't have enough proof to verify he's American or born in America the persons lawyer can say that has already been established and the person is already recognized by the government as American. A state from what I understand can't say someone is not American that the federal government says is American. Isn't the federal government the only body that determines American citizenship? The state determines state residency but not American citizenship.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110419/pl_nm/us_arizona_birther Arizona Governor vetoes 'Birther' bill. Had passed anyone runnng for office in that state would have had to provide proof of their birth and it was up to the sect'y of state to determine what met the requirements. Lets call it what it was, an Obama bill..lol. This is a slippery slope. I wonder if it will be in other states and if they as expected detrmine Obama has not satisfied them with the appropriate proof? I would expect filings in the state supreme court and if they uphold it, the Surpreme Court. Wonder what they would do? Imagine the repurcussions? I think it would backfire eventually. Keeping the debate alive only works if it converts neutrals. Those that were opposed to Obama won't vote for him and it could embolden his supporters or those that once voted for him but were gonna stay home to come out. Interesting.

I'm sure this movie has been mentioned but I'm not going through 58 pages to find out. I just saw 'Gran Torino' on TV. I heard it was a great movie and it was. Clint Eastwood's character reminded me of an uncle I have. Just as racist and cantankerous. Ironically he was a Korean War vet as well and dropped racial slurs as if it was rose peddles. His last name was Bolton and my sister used to call him Archie Bolton ala Archie Bunker. My family is very open to everyone of all colors and ethnicities. I have no qualms whatsoever that any friend or girlfriend would be accepted. However, my uncle, who lives in LA, was the only one in the family we were wary of bringing any non black person around. We'd have to apologize ahead of time. He married my dad's sister who was the most caring person. She was a RN nurse and like my mom, loved all. How those two got together we don't know. We asked her many times and she said, she still couldn't figure it out. He grew on her after months she said. Like Walter, the Clint Eastwood character he had a lot of guns. A lot more than Eastwood did in the movie. He had a lot of fire power in that house and would show it. He loved my brother and I the most because when we were kids we would hear his war stories and ask questions when no one else cared. He told us how he left Oklahoma at 16 y.o., in 1950, lied his age and went to war. How his buddies after learning that he was really a kid, vowed to help him get him is first confirmed kill before he was 18 and it happened when he was 17 y.o. and change. He hated all asians and lumped them all together. Hated whites even more and he said his short temper would have gotten him lynched in 1950 Oklahoma. So, he left. My brohter and I were good kids and he thought a bit too naive about the world, etc. He showed us the ins and outs of the various guns he had. My mother and father would have a heart attack had they known. Shown us our firt porno movie so we'd know wha to do with some pussy when we got some according to him. Only movie with condoms and told us we'd better not ever bang a chick without one or he'd shoot us himself. He hated ghetto blacks as much as a white supremist as well. He was astonished why we didn't ever swear and would drop F bombs on our 9 y.o. ears and didn't care. He asked, what if you stubbed your toe, you don't say F*ck?! He laughed when we said we'd say 'Ouch'. haha...He told my mom and dad that they needed to get us street wise or Philly would eat us up alive. My older brothers wouldn't let that happen but he said they wouldn't be around forever. That movie made me think of my uncle. He was a bastard. But he loved me more than his son who he hardly spoke to back in Oklahoma. He didn't forgive his son for dating white women but forgave me for dating white and asian women. He'd roll his eyes and I couldn't bring them near him but he always loved me. Maybe because I loved him in spite of himself when others didn't. He told me stuff that happened in Korea that haunted me a bit but I was mesmerized. He said the $%^& didn't care about their own people so why should I? My aunt said he had nightmares once in a while. Oh, one more thing. Above all he absolutely detested gays. He'd say given a choice between someone in the family marrying some "white b***h and being a faggot, he'd hold his nose to the white but no 'punks' (slang for gay) and when he was drunk he'd say (and he'd swear it on my aunt's bible which she would scream at him about) that he'd personally put a bullet in anyone in the family who sucked dick'. He said he'd do jail for it. We halfway believed him.

I've long lost faith in BOTH parties. For me, when the pols from both sides start saying what the other side has done, its akin to Hitler and Stalin pointing out each others faults.

I wouldn't argue against those facts Cav. Wouldn't want to. In fact there are a whole bunch of other sh*t the Dems have f*cked up...and royally. However...(and you know there would be.hehehe), the Republicans have their f*ck ups as well and as big. Its just a different f*ck up. Unfortunately, all of it, from both sides affects us all.

Well, we be can sure he wasn't born in Indonesia. His step father at the time was Indonesian so that probably explains that. Had he been listed as Kenyan then I'd go hmmmm....if he gave up American citizenship or rather his parents did for him (is that possible?) then he would conceivably have to re-apply for it and there would be a public record of that. So, it stands to reason they lied about his citizenship in order for him to attend school there. He's a Christian now, not that it matters and in America I know in Philly plenty of non Cathlolics including Asians who are buddhist, Muslims, or those whose parent(s) profess to be, as well as Jews who attend catholic schools because the education was better (despite the nuns whacking the hell out of you). With regards to the Conn. ssn, this happened at the age he was in HS. So we know he did not orchestrate it if it was some sort of subterfuge. These things, if it did happen, seemingly happened without his knowledge. There would have to be an ongoing family coverup that they made privy to him when he was of age and he continued the charade and knowing this ran for President (and prior to that the Senate) knowing full well there would be an intense scrutiny of his background. Yes, candidates have always tried to cover up facts about themselves, this one, at least a constitutional matter such as birth seems a bit too much. If it was drugs, affairs, etc., I could see it, birth and the circumstances surrounding the allegations seems a bit too much. However, you never know.

With regards to the birther thingy. What's a Hawaii birth certificate supposed to look like anyway and wouldn't he have to show one in grade school? Every state has its own birth certificate its not standardized in all 50 states. I assume he had has had a U.S. passport since childhood since he spent part of his schooling overseas. He'd need that or a naturalized citizen certificate to get one wouldn't he? Its never been an issue before in his public life. It would have be a family secret that was guarded from birth so the question begs why do it in the first place? What would have been the big deal back then if he was born in Kenya and brought to the U.S.? He could easily become a citizen if he wasn't already by the citizenship rules at the time? If its a replacement, those things get lost all the time. Hell, I'm not sure I still have mine. My parents should have it but I am not too sure. Also, how do you get a replacement without the state being certain you were born there in the first place? It all smacks of the conspiracy theories about Clinton ordered killings of people in the '90s. With regards to the budget, BOTH parties spend too much money. I know the Dems will spend but at least I know what they'll spend it on. The Republicans spend when they are in and lately its been wars, defense and the difference is I don't know exactly what they'll spend it on. They always seem to be thrifty when the Dems are in power but they spend as much or more when they're in power. Its why I lost faith in them. They don't do what their party platform says and add in the fact the social conservatism stuff from having too many religious zealots in the party. I am no fan of the Dems normally and like my Dems centrist but as it stands I'll go with them. If the Republicans get smart and show some love to Ron Paul, I'm back in. Till then its all noise to me. I may not agree on Ron Paul on everything but he's got integrity. He appears to be a person that won't be a tool of the powers that be. His more conroversial ideas will never see the light of day.

Obama hot mic gaffe; talks about his true feelings about Repubs, etc. I thought it would be much worse frankly when I read the headline. Expected some expletive deletives. http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110415/ts_yblog_theticket/obama-caught-on-audio-slamming-gop "I said, 'You want to repeal health care? Go at it. We'll have that debate. But you're not going to be able to do that by nickel-and-diming me in the budget. You think we're stupid?'" the president said. Obama also complained about GOP attempts to attach a bill to the resolution to fund the government that would defund women's health services provider Planned Parenthood. "Put it in a separate bill," the president said he told House Speaker John Boehner and his staff, CBS reported. "We'll call it up. And if you think you can overturn my veto, try it. But don't try to sneak this through." The president also made clear he is no fan of Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), the GOP's Budget Committee chairman. "When Paul Ryan says his priority is to make sure... he's just being America's accountant and trying to be responsible-- this is the same guy that voted for two wars that were unpaid for, voted for the Bush tax cuts that were unpaid for, voted for the prescription drug bill that cost as much as my health care bill--but wasn't paid for," Obama said.

Even if he was proven to born here without a doubt there is still a debate of denying citizen ship to others who were proven without a doubt to be born here...if their mother wasn't invited formally. While some of those same folks weren't opposed to a serious campaign several years ago to changing the rules to become President if you're foreign born when it was suggested Arnold Schwarzenegger would make a good President. Still scratching my head over that one.

the goverment wants less emission from cars right? They encourage us to use fuel efficient cars and give us incentives to buy hybrids, right? Well, I just heard on the radio Congress is seriously looking at taxing us per mile driven. The resson is they are seeing trends that indicate tha we are buying less gas at the pump (high price, some moving to public transportation, hybrids, less SUVs, more fuel efficient cars, etc) so people will(are) buying less gas and therefore less taxes from gas. Ain't that some sh*t. The reason is that the money is needed to fix and repair roads, etc.

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/112420/why-north-dakota-may-be-best-state-in-country-to-live-in North Dakota May Be the Best State in the Country to Live In Some of the comments after the article was enough for me to give moving there a serious thought. The weather for one. Nothing to another. I'd need a satelite dish with all the channels in the known universe and ample access to porn. I'd also marry a 3rd world woman (or two) just to have something to do on Friday and Saturday nights.

Rather than start a new thread I'll put this here. Help the FBI crack a code and possibly solve a murder. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42348642/ns/technology_and_science-security/?gt1=43001

Not that I agree or disagree. I just like beating HH and Flash to it. :nahnah: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/mar/24/president-obama-has-lost-his-legitimacy-to-remain-/# President Obama has lost his legitimacy to remain in office. The Libyan war has exposed the administration’s lawlessness and rampant criminality. If Republicans and conservatives are serious about restoring constitutional government, they will demand that Mr. Obama be impeached. The war is going badly. The coalition is cracking; the strategic aims of the military intervention are not clear; Russia, China, India and Brazil oppose it; the Arab League is condemning the deaths of innocent Libyans caused by Operation Odyssey Dawn; and it appears that Moammar Gadhafi will succeed in clinging to power - defying the international community and humiliating the United States. Mr. Obama has called for Col. Gadhafi to step down. He has staked American prestige and power on helping bring about that end. The failure to achieve this will render America a paper tiger on the world stage. We will no longer be feared or respected...

Geraldine Ferraro dies http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obit_ferraro

I can say that the management of the steel mills in the USA did nothing but suck the $$$ out of the mills. While the rest of the world reinvested to update the equipment in their mills, the USA did nothing! I know, it was up front nd personal for me. I did more upgrades in Japan, Taiwan and China then were ever done in the USA. The USA management brought much of this on to themselves. The unions only worked to get what they could before the management sucked the business dry. The car industry possibly killed itself as well. I know the unions are often to blame but shoddy cars were being made in the '70s from what I understand while the Japanese made sure they had good products on the road.

And they have been ativetly trying to end credit unions. Not sure how it is now but to show you how this ATM fee is so much bullsh*t, I recall a credit union I belonged to that had no fees at ATMs from other credit unions. Fee income from ATMS, etc. is lucrative for banks, very lucrative.

WTF?! ATM fees are on the rise at some of the country's biggest banks. Chase, for example, is testing out $5 fees for non-customers. That means if you stumble upon a Chase on your way to dinner and decide to take out 20 bucks, you'll pay a 25% fee. And that doesn't even include what your own bank charges you for going out of network, which is typically around $3. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Want-cash-from-an-ATM-Pay-a-5-cnnm-2010047842.html?x=0

So, let me understand this. I owe Bank of America money on a car loan or credit card I can't pay because I lost my job and I could go jail but if Bank of America owes money they can get bailed out by my tax dollars? Okay, got it.

The view by some that we should not have been there. That it was the South Vietnamese' war and not America's. Which was what the anti war movement was saying and it seems their view of it is what is now accepted as being the "correct" one. I'm not saying its my view but in my history classes about the war (and it was before my time), the commonly held belief by the professors and the book was that it was not our war to fight. My brother was in it so I would not like to think he fought for a wrong cause. He did his duty like any soldier for his country.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20110304/us_time/08599205598100 On Civil War Anniversary, Confederate Group Stirs Debate Interesting article. I know there are a couple forumites who have an interest in it. My best friend in college was very proud of his being the ancestor a confederate soldier. He also hated the klan for turning the confederate flag into a symbol of hate. He used to joke he hated the klan more than blacks do. Anyway, he had mixed feelings. He said he admired that many fought proudly as any soldier would but acknowledges that had the south won, it would have kept slavery going longer and he hated that legacy of the south. Soldiers respect other soldiers who fought bravely and valiantly at times I've been told. Maybe some of you vets can confirm that. I've heard that some vietnam vets respected the fighting spirit of the NVA and the viet cong. One thing I would find strange personally would be if I was a vet of a side in a war that was deemed the side that had an unjust cause in the first place by history at least. Confederate vet, German vet from WW2. In some ways one could argue that American vets in the Vietnam war fought on the side that had an unjust reason. Apologies to vets of that era. Just that there are many that said we shouldn't have been there in the first place but that's not to take away from those that fought proudly for their country.

Many states, especially southern states always feared federalism and wanted to retain state rights. However, they've f*cked up their economies so much they not only welcome but sometimes beg the federal government to get involved. The recent economic crisis exposed what was already there. That some states were teetering on the brink. Some cities have been insolvent. Some states are next. The federal government directly or indirectly inlfuences what used to be city or state functions. Education. No Child Left Behind K-12 and grans/loans on the university level. Roads/Highways are now federally funded. Law enforcement - Clinton's 100,000 cops program. I want to know why the American voters were asking presidential candidates what they were going to do about the local crime rate? They have no faith in their state and local governments to do anything about, that's why. Health care is now partially a federal responsibility. What do states do nowadays other than DMV functions? Really. California is completely f*cked and its BOTH parties fault. Their trump card is that they are too big (and important) to let fail. In a strange way (and admittedly its a slight reach), the world economy is linked to California. Its often said that when American sneezes (economically), the worl catches cold. Its been an accepted truism by economists that when California sneezes the American economy catches cold. California would be a G8 nation if it was independent. The only way the American economy can survive is for a change in culture. We have to become a savers like the Japanese are famous for. This is not good for the economy. The government needs us to spend to fuel the economy. However, we are chided for taking on too muh debt to do so. A mixed signal. We have to look to ourselves. Young urban couples and singles figured that out. Gentrification which is really a big word for living in or near the 'hood...lol...was because housing prices put a home in a good neighborhoo so far out of reach young or youngish middle income people started buying the more affordable homes adjacent to neglected neighborhoods. I saw it Philly. Its happened in other cities. Its happened outside of America. Brixton, in south London has changed due to gentrification. So, if Americans could change their spending habit. Live within in their means, it won't matter as much what the goverment does. We'll always be taxed to death by the powers that be. So, we should live accordingly with that knowledge and forego that new car, the over priced neighborhood to impress people we don't like. Wait a little longer to have kids.

Texas is trying to emulate Arizona and pass its own illegal immigration law. Its such BS. If you hire illegals it can be jail time (180 days) and 10 grand in fines...except if you are a homeowner and hire an illegal to be maid or cut the grass. http://www.texastribune.org/immigration-in-texas/immigration/bill-hire-an-illegal-go-to-jail--but-maids-are-ok/ Bill: Hire An Illegal, Go to Jail — But Maids Are OK

My view of the '70s with relation to energy is with the oil embargo that occurred and having to be involved economically, politically and militarily in a middle east that in the best of times is a quaqmire and the worst of times brings a nation into wars and the target of terrorism, why we are still married to the idea of an oil based economy. While not being able to completely ween ourselves off oil, why we don't try as much alternate forms as engery as best we can where we can (solar in the warm areas, wind in areas where it occurs constantly, natural gas, nuclear energy, etc.) Why doesn't America lead the G7 nations in a commitment away from oil? The rest of the world will have to follow. They would have no choice. It would create its own new industries and jobs. Millions of new jobs. Just like the movement from modes of transportation created new jobs. Railroad stocks were the biggest majority of the NYSE in the 1800s. Probably a quarter of all jobs, directly and indirectly were tied to it (farmers, factories, etc, who had to transport goods, even baseball teams relied on rail). Big oil is the problem. Big oil has bought off the Congress and sometimes the white house and its the power of big oil that is as much at fault for our insane energy policy as much as anyone or any group can be blamed. I'm not anti big oil, I'm just anti any non elected entity that weilds power over an elected body.

A lot of you may disagree but I think the FBI' cause was flimsy at best. I think his lawsuit has merit. Student files lawsuit over FBI's GPS tracking A community college student who says he's never done anything that should attract the interest of federal law enforcement officials filed a lawsuit Wednesday against the FBI for secretly putting a GPS tracking device on his car. Yasir Afifi, 20, says a mechanic doing an oil change on his car in October discovered the device stuck with magnets between his right rear wheel and exhaust. They weren't sure what it was, but Afifi had the mechanic remove it and a friend posted photos of it online to see whether anyone could identify it. Two days later, Afifi says, agents wearing bullet-proof vests pulled him over as he drove away from his apartment in San Jose, Calif., and demanded their property back. Afifi's lawsuit, filed by the Council on American-Islamic Relations, claims the FBI violated his civil rights by putting the device on his car without a warrant. His lawyers say Afifi, who was born in the United States, was targeted because of his extensive ties to the Middle East — he travels there frequently, helps support two brothers who live in Egypt, and his father was a well-known Islamic-American community leader who died last year in Egypt. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110303/ap_on_re_us/us_gps_tracking_warrants

Okay, a little mindless frivolty in the USA thread. This is a reunion of sorts for the show Family Ties. Its just the husband and wife from the show. I had no idea that Meredith Baxter..well..watch the clip. Don't wanna spoil it. My feminine side came out a little and I think I got glazy eyed. Other things on there as well. Mindless crap perhaps but at least a departure from the serious political stuff. http://tv.yahoo.com/daytime