check_bin_krap Posted March 19, 2003 Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 Hmm Khun_Kong, this was difficult reading! A bit too intellectual for me.. But I'll try to comment.. "This one I find most interesting: "... We are moving to my country. It does not concern me a bit, there are other worries in the relationship which will be more difficult .... She is far more occupied and concerned about me, which causes friction. I hope she calms down." I'm inferring that this alludes to an unequally dependent - rather than a mutually interdependent - relationship in which he would prefer she build more of her own identity. Know this is certainly a factor in my ex's case. He took the girl out of the country, but the country largely defined her identity - but we'll talk more about that." ............................................................... Some cut and paste misses out an essential part of my post, its not the moving which does not worry me. It was the age difference which I am not concerned with. The dependence on your mate when moving to another country is bound to be strong in the beginning. But I have high hopes that it will lessen, this girl can stand on her own feet. And her worries about me being faithful or not will also calm down to an extent (I hope). I don't have answers to why she is jealous, its certainly not lack of independence. Her parents are dead and she has relied on herself alone for several years now. ................................................................ "I would guess these more modern views are not attributes just of older foreigners, but young ones as well. This more egalitarian approach, however, combined with financial security and the assumption of fidelity, could certainly, as you(?) said, appear the ideal ticket to a better life in a land of few opportunities for women without skills, a profession, money or mobility." ....................................................................... Yes, younger foreigners are equally or even more equipped with modern ideas when it comes to equality between sexes. My point was comparing asians to foreigners. But stability, a settled life is the older foreigners force compared with the younger as you wrote. Agreed! But when it comes to "women without skills, profession or mobility" its way off target in my case. My fiance has just graduated from university, and also has a standing offer to travel abroad and continue her education. And that possibility is not linked to a man in any way. To look at these matters as "easy ticket to success" is very simplified. It might fit in some cases, but certainly not all. And anyone who dared to suggest that to my fiance would have to be prepared to get into a fight And believe me, she is a tough one! :D Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun_Kong Posted March 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 First off, I'd like to thank you responders for your reasoned comments. I can also see that, with me acting solely as an intermediary: (1) my valuable time will be eaten up and I will no longer be able to wander aimlessly about the 'net (2) the nested quotes and cut/paste may become confusing (3) either she or one of you will become upset with ME for someone else's comments ("Kill the Messenger Syndrome" However, I'll continue for awhile because her thoughts are refreshing and and help to temper some of our testosterone-laden mind-sets. FOTW: I'd love to have this woman contribute to the board- she's got a great head on her shoulders and can provide the XX (versus XY) point-of-view. My only reservation is that she is a professional colleague of mine and I would have some concern about being out-ed. As everybody knows, my interest in TL is entirely business. CBK: I did point out to her that your discussion was more the farang/Asian, rather than the young/old, dichotomy. And I completely agree that, while age may not be causative for stability, it is certainly correlated. FFF and I have also discussed whether it is better to have a supprtive Thai community in the new country or whether it is better to cut roots and start anew. As America is professed to be such a ***CLICHE WARNING*** MELTING POT, THIS CONVERSATION COMES UP FREQUENTLY (damn, that CAPS LOCK can be annoying) here in America. While much of the discussion in America revolves around the question of "Do ethnic groups that retain their strong, ancestral identities fragment American society?", I suppose one might extend the argument to family groups of mixed nationalities, especially if there is great polarity on issues like importance/devotion to/reverence of birth family vs marriage family. Hell, we sometimes have problems with level of commitment to in-laws vs. the level of commitment to one's spouse! Oh well, back to work. 15 days to lift-off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun_Kong Posted March 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 Once again (my original comments in blue, her's in red): [color:"red"] This is interesting to me, too - always fascinated with gender issues in general, did a good bit of grad research into Internet gender issues, particularly with regard to children and adolescents where the gender disparities in useful content lags far behind the progress made in recent years for the rest of us. Really, really interesting data. [/color] [color:"blue"] The "fallen prey" comment, I'm sure, is from the MANY men who write about their "being fleeced" experiences. More than you would imagine, some for huge amounts of money. [/color] [color:"red"] For whatever reasons, this surprises me, though maybe it shouldn't - guess hadn't really considered that a ticket "out" of one's conditions might be a simply mercenary approach and not a more complicated package. [/color] KK note: This one caught me by surprise, that she had not even considered that there might be a mercenary component to a farang/Thai relationship. I think many (most) on this board believe the opposite to be true. [color:"blue"] I think here his emphasis was more on the farang/Asian disparity, rather than the age thing. Probably influenced by the fact that more older men might try to find a Thai wife, relative to younger men. [/color] [color:"red"] Another question - is the reverse also true? Are there significant numbers of younger Asian men looking for a foreign "sugar mama"? Guess that depends on the demographics of foreign women in TL - what can you tell me about those? [/color] KK question: I don't have any info for her about this- anyone with more experience/knowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted March 19, 2003 Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 "FFF and I have also discussed whether it is better to have a supprtive Thai community in the new country or whether it is better to cut roots and start anew" ...................................................... I have some experience with this from my previous marriage to a TG. For an average Thai moving abroad it would be a hopeless, lonely and terrible experience not to have contact with other Thais.. Thais are so cemented in their culture that it won't work for most of them. The exception might be Thais who have studied abroad or are used to travelling. IMO it is important to get a balance. They have to mix with plenty of natives to adapt and learn to know their new country. But at the same time they need "Thailand". Cheers! P.S.: Does this belong in "Arts and culture anymore" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun_Kong Posted March 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Says check_bin_krap: P.S.: Does this belong in "Arts and culture anymore" Probably not, but I'll leave that decision to the resident expert(s). I started this thread in (I believe), the Board Bar area. Moderator moved it here. My original intent was not to discuss the film, per se, but rather the issues that were addressed in the film. To me, one of the marks of a good drama is the extent to which it sparks discussion of relevant social issues. The character of Phuong, to me, was incredibly empty and scheming. She was constantly picking the lesser of two (or more) evils: the boring, dispassionate man (who, after 2 years of relationship, had not bothered to learn any of her language and could not even pronounce her name correctly) or life as a taxi girl, dispassionate man or CIA man, life with a calculating killer or working in her sister's nightclub. She certainly was choosing between the 2 protagonists on something other than love (guided by her equally scheming, but probably more aware, sister). Even after realizing that the death of her #1 choice was caused by the other man, she just went back to the remaining choice. I think that most of us have seen live versions of these 4 characters scattered about TL. We (board members) have frequent discussions in which it is said that we will find these characters/character traits in any population, that they are not unique to the Thai. IMO, this is true. But I also believe that the qualities imbued in these characters by Greene are (far) more prevalent in TL than in the US. Talking to my FFF tonight, I asked her what difficulties her ex was having with his Thai wife. She explained that the TG has poor English skills, does not work much, either inside the home or out, because she lacks education and skills. TG apparently does some very part time work to help with expenses, but resents husband for having to do this. Husband says he now finds TG boring, nothing in common, no meaningful shared experiences in life, nothing on which to build a true, co-committed relationship. They live in the Washington DC area in the United States, an area that has a sizeable Thai community. Their age difference is some 15-20 years. I burst out laughing when I asked where he met her and my friend said, "...in a place where music is played". I guess that narrows it down to... just about anywhere!! I can't remember how long they've been together- at least 7 years, I think. They have a couple of kids together, otherwise, husband would probably get a divorce. Interesting that I have not heard that TG is looking to get out/move back to TL/get divorced with cash settlement or anything like that. Obviously, many more questions to ask about that relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 "I think here his emphasis was more on the farang/Asian disparity, rather than the age thing. Probably influenced by the fact that more older men might try to find a Thai wife, relative to younger men. Another question - is the reverse also true? Are there significant numbers of younger Asian men looking for a foreign "sugar mama"? Guess that depends on the demographics of foreign women in TL - what can you tell me about those? " .................................................................. I think most women have preferences when it comes to choosing their mate and act out from that. And if she has experiences or have seen friends struggle with men at their same age, its taken into account. The same thing comes into the picture if she has friends who have found a good life with a foreigner. It the same thing which happens in the west, women seldom mix with men below their social class but often above. People get preferences based upon experiences and act accordingly. To suggest to these girls that it is a calculated, mercenary approach would be met with amazement, and would be very insulting. And other factors are in the picture, this is just a part of it. A girl might choose the least "promosing" prospect because of other factors. Of course some do have a mercenary approach. When it comes to your question about foreign "sugar mamas", I have not seen that in Thailand. It amazes me. Because thats a regular feature in many other countries. In Cuba you see them with their younger bf's every day. Someone said in another thread that its because the Thai men are not physical attractive to foreign girls..Let girls answer that. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 >>>When it comes to your question about foreign "sugar mamas", I have not seen that in Thailand. It amazes me. <<< you have a bit of that in the backpacker scene, kaosarn and the islands. here you have more thai man waiting for the sugar daddies. asian hotspots for female sextourism: nepal, southindia, bali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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