To be or not to be: bpen vs. keu

[Lamock Chokaprret]

Most of you realize by now that the Thai word for "to be" (and its various forms such as "is") is bpen. I have, however, recently become acquainted with what seems to be an alternative form: keu where the k is pronounced somewhere between a k and a g.

 

I have asked a couple of Thais including my wife to explain the difference but they were unable to. My wife responded with the usual "we are Thai and we know."

 

An example of correct usage:

ka-ti proht kawng pom keu gin tanagarn sahm kann gwah kwahm roo which means "my favorite quotation is imagination is more important than knowledge" (quote from Albert Einstein).

 

Now from this example and some others I've heard I've drawn a conclusion that keu is used to relate abstract concepts. But I cannot be sure if this conclusion is true or not.

 

Another usage that I've heard quite frequently is kor keu... where kor is the polite particle for a request. I believe this is the same word since it sure sounds the same to me. Have no idea what this means in context but suspect the kor alone would convey the same meaning.

 

Any native Thai speakers out there (like Jasmine) that could shed some light on this?

[bibblies]

It's used most often in introductions: Nii kheu Khun Lamock, etc. It's a fuzzy distinction but I think of pen being used for 'a state of being' whereas 'kheu' is for a 'straight is' involving objects. There don't seem to be many cases of 'straight is' though! Er, "What is that?" while pointing at something? "This is my office"..."Here are some brochures that describe our product"... "This is a very interesting product".. (getting a lot of examples from a Business Thai book!)

[Guest]

Both ''pen' and 'keu' can only be used to link nouns (not join pronouns or adjectives). But 'Keu' is used only to link two things that are exact equivalents. "Pen" would be used in all other cases.

 

Keu is also used informally (optionally) to refer to an object:

 

Nee keu arai? = this be what? (what is this?)

 

Nee keu lao farangset = This be (is) French wine.

 

In either case, the 'keu' is not nessessary, and can be dropped. Also cannot be used in the negative (as also 'pen'). Instead of saying "nee mai keu lao farangset' (this not be French wine), you would use 'mai chai' (no/not) instead.....'nee mai chai lao farangset'.

 

Pen has a number of uses, such as to denote ability, replacing 'dai' as 'can' (she play flute pen = she can play the flute ), and can mean 'to have/has' when describing a persons condition (he pen a fever = he has a fever). To my knowledge, you cannot interchange with 'keu', in these situations, though. "Keu' has a much more limited usage (i.e. relating to objects, and joining exact equivalents).

 

That's my limited take, anyway. ::

 

HT

[Pescator]

Hi HT,

 

Also cannot be used in the negative (as also 'pen').

 

Whileas I agree that I have never heard Kue been used in the negative, Pben definitely can be used as a negative albeit in a slightly different context.

 

Khun Pben Arai?

 

What is it with you?

 

Mai Pben Arai!

 

Nothing is wrong with me.

 

But in the example you provide with the the french wine, it definitely cannot be used as you so correctly point out.

 

IMO Keu is generally used when you are referring to something that is equivalent or like something else.

 

Ngaan Keu Ngun - Work means/is money

 

I have no idea what the Kor Keu.... expression mentioned by LC means :: Would like to know as well.

 

Cheers

Hua Nguu

[Guest]

Hi,

 

>>>>I have no idea what the Kor Keu.... expression mentioned by LC means Would like to know as well.<<<<

 

That's got me as well. 'Kor' is a request (I would like....). So as 'keu' is used to join two nouns, it cannot be used here.

 

Maybe in the context of 'I would like it to be bigger' (kor keu yai gwa)????. But that would translate to 'I would like to be bigger, and not refer to an object. I would think 'phom yak nan keu yai gwa' would be better ( I want that (to be) bigger). But I'm just guessing here.

 

>>>>>>Whileas I agree that I have never heard Kue been used in the negative, Pben definitely can be used as a negative albeit in a slightly different context.

 

Khun Pben Arai?

 

What is it with you?

 

Mai Pben Arai!

 

Nothing is wrong with me.<<<<

 

Ooops. I forgot about that. You're absolutely correct.

 

HT

[Lamock Chokaprret]

But 'Keu' is used only to link two things that are exact equivalents.

I have trouble understanding how my statement about my favorite quotation is joining two equivalents. I'm not doubting your statement. I just don't see the relationship.

 

I have not been able to follow up with my local sources to gain any additional insight.

[bibblies]

Ah, maybe they mean "equals"? Keu means "is" as in the meaning of "is" being "equals".

 

"This is Mr Brown" could clumsily be thought of as "This equals Mr Brown" (or "This person is Mr Brown" so you're compared two alike things). Love is money - love equals money (or "The concept of love is the same as the concept of money"). 3 plus 3 is 6. 3 plus 3 equals 6. Equals. Is the same as.

 

But you couldn't quite say "I am sick" as "I equals sick"...

[Lamock Chokaprret]

'Equals' (or 'equivalent to') in the direct sense of the word is tao gan but perhaps as you suggest it is meant to infer equality between two abstract concepts.

[Guest]

Hi,

 

I just got off MSN with gf. She says is absolutely no difference between the two. The only difference will be in how you might answer.

 

Nee keu lao farangset = This be (is) French wine, is just as acceptable as "Nee pen lao farangset". No difference, and she asked all the other khon Thai , working in her office, and they all said, both are completely interchangable, and either is acceptable. :: I brought up the 'answering in the negative', and she said does not matter, and makes no difference, and all co-workers said the same thing.

 

Her first comment to my question was, "why are you trying to speak issan lao'? So....it might be a very regional thing. I must say, I was quite adament, and so she asked 6 other Khon Thai working near her, and they all had the same answer. Interchangable, with no specific rules. If only her, I might question it, but with 6 other opinions, I can only help but question this. She did say, "yes, keu relates to an object". But so can 'pen'.

 

This is becoming hard to get my head around. I did read somewhere that the word 'pen', is the biggest mistake farangs make, in speaking the Thai language.

 

HT

[daeng bireley]

This post got me thinking because I know there is a difference but I cant fully explain it. Someone else may be able to expand on my thoughts.

 

Kheu is most often used to mean "namely" and sometimes can mean "to be" or "is". It can sometimes be used the same as "bpen" which means "is" or "to be" but also means a whole lot of other things like: to exist, to be alive, to be capable of, to know how to, to be able to, to have a disease, etc. Bpen is also used as the base for many compound words.

 

My dictionary lists kheu as a verb intransitive and adverb

and bpen as a verb intransitive,adverb and an adjective.

I know very little about grammer so unfortunately I dont know what that means.

 

 

Kor kheu would most likely be goh kheu " ¡ç ¤×à " goh is even more difficult to explain because it often used just for grammatical effect but often means "so" or "also".