tbear31 Posted July 21, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2001 Zane May, I made the mistake of reading your message before I went into work today, and I have been stewing over my reply ever since. I am a pretty good natured guy, so I am trying not to take it as a personal insult, and I hope you don't take my reply in the wrong way; it's all in fun. Although I think most of my reply is already in the reports, I will try to explain. This might get a little long. Oh, before I forget. Chocalat Steve, I didn't pledge one of the black fraternities. The school I went to really didn't have them (there might have been an Alpha chapter). I joined a fraternity that was more of a drinking club then anything else. Think "Animal House" and not "School Daze" Back to Zane... I think that it is incredibly relevant to compare the value that you recieve in the US to the value that you recieve in Thailand, and I will do so whenver it is to my advantage in the following message. Sorry. quote: "She tells me that she really loves him, but he doesn't love her. She then asks me about the true meaning of love...This is the most surreal moment of the entire trip. I mean how can I, basically a guy in search of a BJ 15,000 miles away from home, tell her, a bargirl in Pattaya, about the true meaning of love? Talk about the blind leading the blind!" You are right, she didn't ask me about the true maning of love; that was my interpretation of her questions (BTW "Uh hansum man, what twoo meaning lub, ka?" , that's too funny!). She was incredibly articulate however. Probably the second most articulate Thai that I met (That award goes to the effeminate "host" at the Hollywood disco; that guy sounded like he was educated at Princeton). I made a comment about her english, and I THINK that she said that she had lived with her boyfriend, in some european country for three years. Her questions were more about how he no longer wants her to live with him, and that any time they have sex, he gives her money and says that it is "just business". Also she didn't know how to convince him that she really loved him, and how to get him to love her. She then asked me point blank, how do you get a person to fall in love with you? It was at this point that I concluded that she was asking about the true nature of love, and also realized that I had no idea how to get someone to fall in love with you. This really did happen. I never answered her because of the distraction of nose-ring girl. quote: "...The only thing I was waiting for was a bit of an emotional attachment to one or more. "The hansum man walks hand-in-hand into the sunset with the pretty, long-haired lady." Nothing permanent for God's sake, just a little love affair." Yea, I never really experienced that. I think someone on another board mentioned that I may be in love with Thailand now, but it will be nothing compared to when I first fall into LOVE with a bargirl. I got my pictures back about a week ago, and I think the crazy freelancer from the first day was the only one who may have had real feelings for me. It was nearly impossible to form a bond with massage girl, her english was practically non-existant. I'll try harder during my next trip. quote: "Did they refer to you as farang when they talked about you to each other?" How would I know? They were speaking in Thai. My Thai allows me to count to ten, ask someones name, say "hello", "no thank you", "Thai women are very pretty", "breasts", "book", "How ya doin?", "good heart", "Did you come?" and "I had fun" (It's amazing how far these words and phrases got me). My ability to comprehend what they are saying was severely limited, and I'm sure I looked like some sort of big chocalate labrador retriever everytime I looked up and cocked my head when I heard I word I recognized. I do remember hearing "kon american", which I later found to mean American. Occasionally I heard the word falang, but they could have been talking about me, the President, the last guy they were with, the guy in the corner, etc. I don't know how else they would refer to me (and after thinking about it, I don't think I would want to know), so I didn't know to listen out for it. quote: "Then you set aside a pile of cash that would suffice for a trip to New York or Europe." I guess you haven't been to New York in a awhile. Even though, as I have said many times, I spent way too much in Thailand, if I went to New York with the same intentions, I would have spent THOUSANDS of dollars more. The money I spent in 2 weeks in Thailand would have lasted for about 3-4 days in New York. And that is of course without the sex. With sex, it would be a day trip. I'm not sure if you know this, but a lot of escorts in most major American cities will charge $1,500 (68,000 baht) for an overnight stay. They also expect you to be checked into a 4 star hotel. This is not even the high range. I know what you are driving at, but c'mon? quote: 1. "Since the decision was too much to make after 16 hours on a plane, I barfined them both. It was 350 baht each, and I offered them 1500 baht each for shortime. I settled up the bill and we were off to my room." I don't think I apologized for this one, and I don't think it is that bad. I arrived in Bangkok, after travelling for 16 hours (newbie flying mistakes), and go to the first bar I see. I have NO IDEA what is going to happen next. I was so obviously a newbie that if they had asked for 4000 baht, I probably would have paid it. That is, if I hadn't done my homework and learned what the price would be. I think that it was good that I knew to set the price. I thought that possibly paying 500 baht more, then the going rate would not get me in trouble. Remember, I HAD NOTHING TO COMPARE THEM TO! They were the two prettiest girls in the bar, and for all I knew, they could have been the super-stunners that everyone talks about on the board. Additionally, I thought that doing a threesome deserved at least a little bit more. In my mind, they were going to go down on each other, then take turns blowing me, etc. Maybe the combination of my pornography collection and my imagination were a little too much. We all now know that it didn't happen that way, and I know that I should have known better, but that doesn't seem that bad. I ask you and the group, if it did turn out to be a true threesome, would 1,500 still be overpaying? Looking back on your message, you include the 350 barfine in your calculation. Is that negotiable? If not, then let's keep it out. quote: 2. "We drank some more and basically closed the bar down. I think my bill came to 4500 baht. I offered 2000 baht to college girl for LT." Ummmm.... Ok, I know! Again, let me set the stage. Up until this point, I was pretty much like a guy stuck in a bad relationship. This was not only my first time out in a while, but the first time at Nana Plaza! Also remember I was there for 6 hours (so that's really only 800 baht/hr). Hmmm, I don't think this is working. I was drunk; really, really drunk. I know you don't like this, but I will put it in American terms. I was once in an American strip club, and stayed there for 6 hours. I was basically with 2 girls, got lap dances, and the night ended with a hand job at the bar (it was a pretty sleazy place). I spent about $600 dollars there. In bangkok, I was with 5... well "girls", bought them and myself drinks throughout the night, had the DJ play all the songs I wanted, and it cost $100. Both times, I got a little carried away, but I don't regret it. I work very, very, very hard, and really don't get out that much. That's not to say that you don't. I just meant that sometimes I just want to go all out, and just have a good time. In Thailand you can do that, and it's not going to completely destroy your bank account, like it would in the states. Haven't you ever rang the bell? Have you ever bar fined a girl that you just HAD to have at any price? I think that even if I retire there, I might go "wild" every once in a while. Another thing, it was also like the b-day celebration that I wish that I had on my birthday, instead of being with the psycho. I don't think that I can apologize for that one. quote: 3. "I give her 2000 Baht (To all the Baht police out there, I later realized that I TOTALLY overpaid this girl, I basically gave her 3500 for one LT, which was not my intention. I just forgot that I had paid her for a ST earlier)" I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm so very sorry. This was a mistake, a horrible mistake. At least I realized my mistake, right? The way that this happened is that I took her short time, and then she left. I went to sleep, woke up at 2am, and then she called. She came up, and we went at it again. In the morning, there was that awkward moment when you know it's time to pay her. Keep in mind, this was my first LT. I thought LT, reviewed the notes in my head, and thought 1,500 - 2,000. I gave her the 2,000. I didn't do it to screw over the ex-pats. It was just a stupid newbie mistake. Maybe by writing this, none of the other newbies will do this. You are right about the exchange rate. If that 500 baht difference were 20 dollars, instead of 10, I probably would think twice about my spending. It's hard not to think about what $10 buys in America. I was thinking about this on the way home. Things you can buy for $10 (500 baht) in my hometown: 1) Pair of socks. 2) 2 beers at a bar 3) 1 drink at an upscale club 4) daily parking 5) Non fast-food lunch 6) About 3 miles in a taxi Things you DEFINATELY can't buy for $10 (500 Baht) in my hometown: 1) ST 2) A lapdance 3) A lady drink 4) Taxi across town 5) Non fast-food dinner 6) Good service I will conclude on a more general note. As I said before, I am not rich, but there are a lot of people who make less then I do. I'm just lucky that I have a knack for making computers do what people want them to do. This will not make me a billionaire, and only a millionaire if I work for the rest of my life and live with a frugal lifestyle waiting for the day I retire. I'm not prepared to do that; I saw my parents do that, and they basically lived in misery their entire lives. Two of my favorite sayings; "Tomorrow is promised to no one" and "You can't take it with you!". I had two friends die recently, one from a motorcycle accident, one from drinking and drowning. They were both in their early thirties. I'm now 33 years old. Maybe my goal of retiring early, but trying to do and see everything I can may contradict one another, but I still hope it works out. If I saw a girl in Thailand that reminded me of Naomi Campbell, in a sex show, sucking a bowling ball through a twisty straw, I'm going to barfine her, whatever the cost. If it's outrageous, I'll try to bargain, but if it comes down to $10..... Zane, thanks for giving me another excuse to vent ;-)! T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfman36 Posted July 21, 2001 Report Share Posted July 21, 2001 TBear: I don't know what's more classic, your trip reports or your replies... If the day ever comes that we meet while vacationing in Nana Plaza...the 1st & 2nd rounds are on me! You make some great points... I too was thinking that you overpaid but, and this is the point, YOU ADMITTED IT... , Geez guys! Read the man's reports, he knows he overpaid and was just letting us in on his private "comings" and goings! I think you have given us all 5 damn good reads and I want to thank you. I wish more guys could submit as good of a writing as you did. Oh, and by the way, it's true; would I let $10 get in the way of banging Naomi Campbell? No way! But, in truth, I do agree we need to keep the line drawn because 1000-2000B today will be 3000B-4000B tomorrow. Also, tell us some of your MP experiences if you have any. I'd really like to get your take on LOS MP's. Finally, don't let anyone get to you, there are all types here on these boards. You've got nothing to hang your head about! Cheers, Jeff [ July 21, 2001: Message edited by: elfman36 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zanemay Posted July 21, 2001 Report Share Posted July 21, 2001 bElfman, I gave TBear credit for progress!! Geez to you too! And "Geez guys! Read the man's reports, he knows he overpaid..." And "Finally, don't let anyone get to you, there are all types here on these boards." Were you referring to me? I was sure I expressed a lot of positive...He is good-hearted and respects the girls when so many don't. I said he was jai dee! Geez! TBear, There was sense of humor, respect and admiration in my comments that you must have missed? And that I acknowledged your growing awareness as time passed? Much was tongue-in-cheek, too. I am sorry that you were offended and took so much time to respond. I was using the financial parts of your post to make a point. I have used those of others. I am making a case for the expats scuffling around the back streets of Pattaya, living in the same kind of rooms as bgs for 2,000 baht/mo. with a fan on a chair and who also want a little sanuk. Some of these guys are living on Social Security or the foreign equivalent. I did not suggest that you are stupid, or trying to do any damage to those types or anything else negative. I took a bit of poetic license here and there as you did with the true-meaning-of-life episode. When I said something like, "that's funny" you seemed to hear "that's a lie you stupid bastard." I meant it was humorous. You know there's sensitive and that's really good. And there's "too damned sensitive" which my mother called me - the pot calling the kettle black. You asked: "Haven't you ever rang the bell? Have you ever bar fined a girl that you just HAD to have at any price?" Absolutely not! I don't have to have anything at any price. Basically I don't go to go-go's anymore except to see the shows. Even at Patpong early on my last trip, and I was overwhelmed by a rush of girls and decided to take one, it was 500 barfine and 1,000 LT. That's it. When Thais think of spending that amount of money for a night, it boggles their minds. The space ship from the planet money has landed! That's what they pay for a month's rent, for God's sake! I have my regular girlfriends who take care of me and keep life very interesting and I look for freelancers with long-term potential. (Even though you think I am an AH they - my gfs - like me. I know they like me because we have great fun day after day and I do not drown them in baht.) One night I was at Tony's in Pattaya with my regular girfriend and we were looking to pick up another girl - she likes pussy more than I do! I chat with a well-spoken lady who was married to an American once and is bursting with enthusiasm to be the third. Everything is great. She asks me if I will buy her a drink and I say sure. I am happily holding hands with both ladies. Without asking me, she exploits the situation by switching from what she has been drinking and ordering the most expense mixed-drink-with-an-umbrella they have. Shit! She has flunked the character test. She will only be interested in money. I pay and wander off never to be seen by her again. My gf asks me why I did not take the lady. I told her about the drink and said, "She will not take care of me like you do." The lady is not someone I would like to know for a long time and I don't go with anyone short time. When they ask me how long I want I say "Ha pi." Five years. If I don't see potential for that, it's no go. I go to LOS because I THINK I can live well there if I watch it and if exchange rate and prices stay the same. Two years ago my perspective was a bit different. (But I wasn't in LOS yet because of my work schedule.) My stocks were in the stratosphere and I lived by a rule: "If you even THINK you want something, you must buy it." I was always a buyer of stuff anyway and now so much of the crap I have is a fucking ball-and-chain of the first order! I can easily live forever with my computer, my guitar, my golf clubs, a book and the things I can get in two suitcases. And a couple of gfs of course. In that other life I traveled to Paris and stayed in a hotel that cost $90 a day for 5 weeks. (Of course breakfast was included!) While I would love to travel to more places, especially a month or so on a trek through the museums of London, I don't see myself in a position to do so. If I ever feel I can, believe me, I am off. The point is I am not cheap, I am sensible. (Which doesn't imply that you aren't.) I want to remake the point that comparing what you can get at home for what it costs in LOS is ...hummm... unhelpful. Not that I don't do it sometimes - I have rented a condo for $9 a day and of course know that it's a great deal compared to the $165 I spent in Hawaii. I will quote from the sage Stickman's Guide "Try not to convert prices back to the currency of your home country. It's impossible not to do this when you first arrive but after a while, you need to think in terms of Bangkok prices, not prices from your homeland. If you do convert prices back into your own country's prices, things will seem cheap and you will invariably throw away a lot of money. Try and live like a Thai lives and you will save a lot of money. 1 baht = 100 satang and not X amount of $$ or pounds etc." Here's how I think: "What does it cost a Thai to live? Not just in BKK but in other areas too? What does the amount of money I give to them mean to THEM in Thailand?" Not to me in America. Until one thinks like that, one will spend a whole lot more than one needs to. I'm not sure how Thais think, but my guess is that they think spending too much is rather stupid. Of course you have to have a bit of experience. Oh...Thais say "falang" in front of people they refer to as "falang" all the time. It is not an insult. Anytime two people talk about me, I hear, "Falang, falang, falang." Then I say, "Hey, I heard my name!" If you didn't hear it they weren't thinking of you as farang. I was gratified to see this at the end of your post: "Zane, thanks for giving me another excuse to vent ;-)!" I take it you were not deadly serious and personally offended. As they say, don't let anyone get to you. don't let anyone get to you, there are all types here on these boards. Sanuk Dee, Zane [ July 21, 2001: Message edited by: Zane May ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 22, 2001 Report Share Posted July 22, 2001 Okay, great posts. Lets everyone kiss (a Stunner BG) and make up! Tbear, please continue to post your trip reports, thoughts, etc. without any hesitation. Zane, Ranger and the bunch, thank you for your input also. There are all types on this board as in life. I always learn something new from reading these posts. This time I learned to pay for things from the Thai perspective. Good point. I've had my part-time Pattaya girlfriend do the bargaining at times since as a farang they sometimes will only go down in price so far. Lastly, I've violated the price rules for the occasional, exceptional stunner. But I do agree on holding the line on prices! Choc. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 quote: Originally posted by tbear31: I'll try harder during my next trip. You must be really patient and good-natured. I found Zane May's post pretty offensive. Nubian-bie? What the hell was that all about? As your trip reports clearly illustrate, you had a great trip that's left you with some nice memories and some worthwhile personal goals. That's what it's all about! The money you spent was about *YOU* -- you don't owe any apologies to anyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 Wow! Good reporting TBear. Your details sure made it seem like we were there too. And 3500b.. well... Im sure she doesnt get someone like you every day. maybe she gets the next 10 guys as "cheap charlies" who knows. One day you will be there living and Im sure it will be Your turn to tell one of the guys not to pay whatever amount. Anyway.. thanks for the info. You met a massage girl, nose ring girl, pool girl (loudmouth) and a Katooey! Seems to me you reached all levels except maybe the dwarf girl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zanemay Posted July 26, 2001 Report Share Posted July 26, 2001 quote: Originally posted by TEDBKK: I found Zane May's post pretty offensive. Nubian-bie? What the hell was that all about? Hello TedBKK, I would not want to be thought of as making a racist slur. You think "nubian" is derogatory? It is commonly used in good taste. I was using a "play on words" as a joke because it seemed funny to me. Notice that TBear was quite thorough in detailing everything that bothered him, and Chocolate Steve responded to me with no mention of it. The quip may not have been funny (I still like it)to anyone else, but it wasn't offensive. I have Afro-Carribean gf, African room mate, and African American boss, a twenty year history of dating only black women until I went to LOS and a career in a public capacity that furthered the cause. Any of the black posters may wish to comment. If "nubian" is offensive to anyone black poster I will be enlightened. Here are other uses of the word in web site names: 1. Nubian Models Nubian Models is the online modeling registry for African-American models. Having online Comp Cards and Portfolios allows models the ability to showcase themselves to advertising, modeling & talent agencies that otherwise might not have seen them, 24... http://www.bstone.net/nubianmodels 2. Les Nubians http://www.lesnubians.com/ 3. Nubians Orient for North Africa and the Middle East Click to open Encyclopaedia of the Orient on its front page LexicOrient Click Here Please visit our Sponsor Click Here to Visit our Sponsor By: Abubakr Sidahmed Photo. Tore Kjeilen READER ADS: production... http://www.i-cias.com/e.o/nubians.htm 4. Who are the Nubians? The Nubians of Northern Africa embrace a history and tradition that is easily traced to the dawn of civilization. The Nubians hold esteemed credentials that identify them as the very first people of whom modern archaeologists have evidence of from......... http://www.the-nubians.com/640_480/who_are_the_nubians.html 5. Nubian Images Ethnic Fashions Ethnic Fashions Catalog for Women http://www.nubian-images.com/ 6. Nubian Beauty Nubian Beauty is the source for books, products, and information about health and beauty for people of African descent. Purchase books, cosmetics, hair care, and skin care products http://www.nubianbeauty.com/ 7. VE-Nubian History: Egyptian Occupation (3200-1800 BC) Egyptian Occupation (3200-1800 BC) http://www.ancientsites.com/~SenenAnep_Meritamen/Occupied-Group.htm 8. Nubian Soul Online: The Only Way to Interact Events that changed Black America... We've come too far to turn back now... The Only Way to Interact... June 12, 1963 - Medgar Evers, NAACP field secretary in Mississippi, is assassinated in front of his home. If you are looking for eye popping... http://www.nubiansoul.com/ Zane May Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbear31 Posted July 26, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2001 I really didn't find it offensive, and it didn't register as an insult. After TEDBKK's message, I thought about it and didn't think you meant it as an insult. Sometimes humor, especially sarcasm doesn't come across very well in email and messages. Maybe TEDBKK just took it the wrong way. I think that he might have a case that African American newbies don't really require a new term, and being labled a "Nubian-bie" is not required. I can see his point, but it wouldn't make it on my list of insults. Even as I write this, I feel like I'm wasting bandwidth with such a trivial issue. But if you look around the board, misunderstandings and eventual apologies are everywhere. Hopefully we can now put this to rest. Zane, I thought your message was insightful, funny, with a little good-natured ribbing. I tried to respond in the same manner. It was all in fun. No hard feelings on my end. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 27, 2001 Report Share Posted July 27, 2001 TedBKK: I think your post was well meaning and I applaud you for addressing what you perceived as a slur. However, I tend to agree that Zane May was joking and meant no offense. It is appreciated though. The world could use more people who look out for others. Zane May: I was not offended and thought the Nubian/Newbie reference was funny. You've stated your feelings on race, etc. on other posts and I am confident you have nothing but good intentions. The problem with written text is that you can't hear the person or see them as they type it so its up to the reader to decipher the intent. I am not the overly sensitive type (as evidenced by my screen name). I look at the intent. Pattaya BGs call me 'Chocolat' and I can assure you they mean that in the most flattering manner! I haven't had it so good since I was in Europe in my college days. Overall, I love all peoples and one of the secondary benefits of going to LOS besides the women are that I meet expats from all over the world. The last time I was there I met and bar hopped one night with an Aussie, Dutchman and a German and we had a great time at one of the bars. Here in Los Angeles, its somewhat cosmopolitan and I enjoy the diversity. I don't want this to detract from Tbear's great travel report and go off on a tangent. I, like many others on this board, enjoyed it and some of us learned something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zanemay Posted July 28, 2001 Report Share Posted July 28, 2001 quote: Sometimes humor, especially sarcasm doesn't come across very well in email and messages. TBear: I wasn't being sarcastic. quote: Pattaya BGs call me 'Chocolat' and I can assure you they mean that in the most flattering manner! I haven't had it so good since I was in Europe in my college days. Chocolat Steve One of my Pattaya gf's calls herself "cholcolate" all of the time. She's dark-skinned. "Papa no like Chocolate drink too much." It's just her name for herself in our conversation. TBear You might hear "chocolate, chocolate, chocolate" the way I hear farang, farang, farang. Just names for us. If you don't hear it in English they are probably using a Thai word. After all, they need some way to refer to everyone so they can gossip. Take care, Peace, Zane May Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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