Thai word (concept) for justice ?

[Guest]

OK, so 2 old Thai hands are sitting in the Yukon and one says there is no Thai word for justice. (At least the Western concept)

Althought this may have to due with his latest Thai wife, I rise to the bait and declare that the Nanplaza.com language gurus can find one!

Don't let us down. We await your enlightenment as the first snow of the year descends.

[Lamock Chokaprret]

One could argue that, properly administered, 'muay thai' could be a form of justice.

[Guest]

justice = khwarmyuttitham ความยุติธรรม

[ September 04, 2001: Message edited by: noo6 ]

[Guest]

Originally posted by noo6:

"justice = khwarmyuttitham ความยุติธรรม"

Right. Though shouldn't it be spelled with only one r? (sorry, my Thai reading ability is quite limited).

As with many Sanskrit-based Thai words I've sometimes wondered about the original meaning of this one. "Khwarm" is of course a prefix denoting a noun; "yutthitham" I think could be from "yuddha-dharma", "the law/rules of war" - in which case "justice" would mean s.th. like "to pay back in the same coin"? An eye for an eye?

[BkkShaggy]

quote:

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Originally posted by Scum_Baggio:

I think could be from "yuddha-dharma", "the law/rules of war" - in which case "justice" would mean s.th. like "to pay back in the same coin"? An eye for an eye?

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In this word, it is "Yutti" rather than "Yuddha" (which means "war").

"Yu-ti" has two meanings: "rightousness" or "stop". In this case of "Yu-ti-tam" it would mean "the law of rightousness".

[Guest]

Originally posted by BkkShaggy:

'In this word, it is "Yutti" rather than "Yuddha" (which means "war"). "Yu-ti" has two meanings: "rightousness" or "stop". In this case of "Yu-ti-tam" it would mean "the law of rightousness".'

It would be interesting to investigate if there's a cultural and linguistic link between "war" and "righteousness". It's not too far-fetched, is it? After all, there have been many "righteous wars".

Sometimes there are surprising connections between words. If I may give an example from India: One of the Hindi words for "prostitute", "randi", is derived from one of the words for "widow", "randa" - the underlying implication being that widows easily turn into prostitutes (for reasons of survival, as well as the fact that in India women who were outside the control of a male family member were automatically regarded as "loose").

[ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: Scum_Baggio ]

[Guest]

ยุติธรรม yuttitham, seems to be made up from the word ยุติ yutti which can also mean to like or favor (same spelling as the word for stop or end).

ธรรม dham tham or thamma rightousness or the teachings of bhudda.

ยุทธ can be pronounced yut or yutta = battle,fight

ธรรม, double ro or r pronounced as "a" between

consonants or an when at the end of a word.

Scum, do you read sanskrit these thai letters are only used with sanskrit loan words and are supposed to correspond with sanskrit letters.

the ธ which is a t in thai is, I believe,

used for the dh sound in sanskrit.

[Guest]

Originally posted by noo6:

"ธรรม dham tham or thamma rightousness or the teachings of bhudda."

Pali dhamma (Thai tham) is usually often used as "teachings of the Buddha", but its root meaning (from Skt. dharma) is simply "religious law/duty". Of course, Buddhists take it to be associated with the Buddha.

"Scum, do you read sanskrit these thai letters are only used with sanskrit loan words and are supposed to correspond with sanskrit letters.

the ธ which is a t in thai is, I believe,

used for the dh sound in sanskrit."

I do read Sanskrit, but my Thai reading ability is fairly basic. The problem is that there are two different "dh" sounds in Sanskrit: one is the "regular" aspirated d (d-h), the other is a retroflex dh - that is, it is pronounced by rolling back the tongue and pressing it to the palate. If you want to imitate a "typical" Indian accent, pronounce every consonant in this manner (Peter Sellers was very adept at it).

Anyhow, I think I finally got to the root of "yutti":

Sanskrit "yukti" means, among other things, suitability, dexterity, appropriateness, ingenuity, skill. The kt is very difficult for Thais to pronounce, so the k is simply dropped.

In light of this, "yuttitham" should be from "yukti-dharma", which we could translate as "the taking of the appropriate measure". I think we have it nailed here.

As we were mentioning "yuddha" (war) before: A derivative of it survives in the town name of Ayutthaya (Skt. ayodhya). It translates as "not to be warred upon" or "the un-warlike" (Skt. prefix "a" denotes an opposite; yodhya = warlike).

[BkkShaggy]

Originally posted by Scum_Baggio:

[QB]Originally posted by BkkShaggy:

>>'In this word, it is "Yutti" rather than "Yuddha" (which means "war"). "Yu-ti" has two meanings: "rightousness" or "stop". In this case of "Yu-ti-tam" it would mean "the law of rightousness".'

>It would be interesting to investigate if there's a cultural and linguistic link between "war" and "righteousness". It's not too far-fetched, is it? After all, there have been many "righteous wars".

The two words are spelled differently, at least in Thai any way. I'm not sure if there's any cultural or linguistic link. It might be.

[Flashermac]

Justice = MUE BEUN!

Same same in the Yukon.