Straycat Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 These people are living in a land where they are seriously looked upon as 3rd class citizens....no chance of a decent job, no education etc etc. The reason ? They are Muslim and in the minority. I honestly don't know about that as I've not spent much time in the south -- but something that always struck me as 'funny' is that when you look at a Thai passport you will see that there is a Buddha watermarked on each page. Funny? Yeah, it's a bit odd considering the following passage of the Thai constitution: Chapter 1 - Section 5: The Thai people, irrespective of their origins, sexes or religions, shall enjoy equal protection under this Constitution. Now you don't see Jesus on U.S. passports, do you? (But with the current administration, I guess it's just a matter of time :: -- See LazyPhil, I could sneak in some GWB here as well ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 WA your imposing your ideas about 'islamo facists' on people who know nothing of Dervishes or Ottomans Well Adik I dont think I used the term "Islamo fascists" nor did I necessarily imply that they are part of a jihad. And of course I recognize the cultural uniquenss of Thai/Malay muslim culture which has a different overlay than say Afghani tribesman.. The main point was of course fanatacism and lack of fear of death using the Dervishes as an illustration.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbledonk Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 Cmon Adik, I dont have an understanding of politics in southern Thailand, but I do *believe* media reports that extremist Islamic clerics have fostered dissent among the devout Muslim population in the south. It may only be part of the picture, but poverty and religious fanaticism go hand-in-hand. Do I believe that *every* Muslim in southern Thailand (or elsewhere) supports these extreme views ? No, of course they dont, and thats the danger - Thaksin and his security forces can paint a black-and-white picture that will lead to further religious persecution. I admit that my tolerance for the views of these people has diminished significantly since Bali, but how many of us would like to see a separate Islamic state in Southern Thailand ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lazyphil Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 <<See LazyPhil, I could sneak in some GWB here as well>> Shocking...NOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiledCowboy Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 I have deliberately personally avoided delving deep into the reasons etc etc and so on and so forth ad infinitum...I am simply making the statement that violence of this magnitute perpertrated by any organisations, loose or known, or any government is totally abhorrent, unjustifiable and should never, ever have any excuses made for it - once you start doing that, then, well, you can justify brutal violence anywhere against anyone, anytime and for what ever cause turns you on - and this is where the world is at today. I am not tunneled-visioned - I too can see reasons why both parties did what they did and would of course be equally critical if any Government had initiated the violence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adikgede Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 You seem to know enough about the situation in the south of Thailand to be able to make the claim that the people who instigated attacks against government security posts were Neanderthals whose answer to everything is violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiledCowboy Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 Respectfully, you are still not grasping my point - I am commenting that such violence, done by anyone or anywhere is committed only by persons that, in my opinion, are lacking. If the Mensa Club did exactly the same against the Micky Mouse Club then they too, both would be in neanderthal-level development stages. I don't condone brutal violence on a personal or group level at all. And I won't justify it for any cause or group, full-stop. I am generalising when I said the term neanderthals - really, it was meant to distinguish between the violence doers and those that do not need to do so - let's not get tied up in semantics, but at least now accept what its use intended - a slur on those that pick up a weapon to settle arguments. I think that this thread should come to an end shortly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanchao Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 It really smells like a set-up, police/army/authorities knew about it, and these kids were massacred. IMO, of course, but no one would doubt they're capable of that. Guess what.. just saw a poll on Channel 3: 98% (NINETY EIGHT PERCENT) of respondents said they were quite pleased to see blood & guts of those thugs splattered all over that mosque.. One big fat 'som - nam - na' to them. By comparison, try asking any question at all and see if you get 98%.. Ask 'Is sugar sweet?' and you STILL get a good number of doubters, nay sayers or people without opinion.. ;-) To quote someone else, somewhere else: (Chokrai on thaivisa.com) "These 'poor teenagers' are the same ones responsible for killing monks,police and burning down schools but when a dozen or so attack a police hut the police should just shoot them in the legs and then let them hide out in a mosque till their mommys come and get them? What planet are some of you guys living on?" Cheers, Chanchao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 not sure what your answer has to do with knowing about the assault and waiting to shoot the kids instead of preventing them, unless you try to show us that the PM was doing a very smart, if bloody PR stunt. 98%? sure worked.... Chokrai seems to know who did the killings in the south these past months. Any chance he can forward the infos to the authorities? Ch, you live there, surely you are not too naive about the police acting in the name of justice. It may not have been a set-up, but dare tell me that thai cops would not pull one. And dare tell me that the muslim unrest in the south is the fact of "poor teenagers" only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanchao Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 > not sure what your answer has to do with knowing about the assault and > waiting to shoot the kids instead of preventing them, unless you try > to show us that the PM was doing a very smart, if bloody PR stunt. > 98%? sure worked.... Yup. That was more or less what I accept yes, that after having almost daily incidents of monks hacked to death or schools torched, they now had the opportunity to get rid of a whole lot of them, and took the opportunity. I don't think most Muslims in the South have/had a lot of sympathy for people who torch schools. Pretty similar to the rumours of 'samurai gangs' in the North committing random violence. If police shoot a bunch of those on the spot then you get a 98% approval rating too. Similar thing was the Ratchaburi hospital siege by a bunch of Burmese morons who had already attempted some hostage taking earlier in Bangkok but got away with that.. Not that time. They were all killed even though they most likely could have been taken alive. (Or left alive, after capturing them. ;-)) > Chokrai seems to know who did the killings in the south these past > months. Exact same thugs of the type who did the police raid. It's likely that many of them have committed those and other crimes in the past. (But even if they didn't, having a go at authorities is already more than enough for a one way ticket to hell in my book. (They did it at at time when martial law was in effect too.) > Ch, you live there, surely you are not too naive about the police > acting in the name of justice. Of course not. And I don't agree with it in ordinary criminal offenses, such as the drug smugglers who got caught and then executed a couple of years ago. I remember Chuan was just coming to power then and also did nothing. That idiot monk Phra Koon even approved of the extra-judicial killing. I thought and think that was sick. The situation in the South however is different. Terrorism is indeed war, so no crying when terrorists are treated the same way as an opposing force would be. (Not to mention that issues of national security and law and order are at stake, even martial law was in effect in those areas. The very purpose of declaring martial law is that police and military have all the freedom they need when security is threateneed. So I distinguish between police brutality for ordinary crimes in ordinary times, and an orchestraded attack in times of martial law. The former is always bad. The latter.. well.. that's what marial law is for. > It may not have been a set-up, but dare tell me that thai cops would > not pull one. Oh I'm completely fine with it being a set-up. Would actually raise my level of appreciation. ;-) > And dare tell me that the muslim unrest in the south is the fact of > "poor teenagers" only. No, but I do tell you that mainstream Muslims have no sympathy whatsoever for terrorist actions like hacking monks to death or torching schools. Try that in any Muslim country and see what happens. As I've said elsewhere, I've been in the South recently (Songkla) and love the place and the people. Cheers, Chanchao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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