Old Hippie

Good idea, I pawned off some crap wine on a guest I had from NZ...er...I meant a different guest, I gave you the good stuff...er wine, I mean...not talking about anything gay...

Maybe she is "pro Israel?"

Actually there's a reasonable selection. I've tried a few but haven't found anything yet that I would readily buy again. Problem is that if you buy one and don't like it you've still got 5 litres to get through or chuck!

use it to marinate some meat.......

Marinades, wine sauces, salad dressings...wine stews etc...

"...

And seriously, all this stuff about cross-hairs on a political map and tying it into a schizo killing someone, is reaching..."

Is it? What was the "real message" she was "trying" to say? Her rhetoric is indeed very similar, or could logically be considered as such, to that of Metzger, who went a step beyond implying people be killed, and just called for it. He claimed free speech as well.

Didn't Dershowitz also defend O.J?

....and so is the nut who shot her.

 

 

 

Loughner is Jewish because he has a Jewish mother but he wasn't a practicing Jew. He claimed one of his 20 odd books he liked was Hitler's Mein Kampf. One of his favorite people was Sarah Palin.

 

Some historians claimed Hitler had some Jewish blood. Does that make him a Jew? Probably.

Jeez, talk about self haters...

I can't see them nominating her. Not if they want to win. It will have to be a moderate. But she'll demand a price.

Who have they got? No one.

 

Huckabee? Too fundy X-tian

Mittens? Not Xtian' date=' wears magic underwear

Palin? Just a stupid nutjob who lost any credibility with her teevee show showing her lies

Newt? Puh-leese

Pawlenty? Mr Flip-flop? He was a moderate until he wanted to be POTUS

 

Who am I forgetting?[/quote']

 

 

My fear is, there are enough stupid people in this country who would vote for any or all of the above mentioned wing nuts.

"...I don't see any malicious intent there or anything even comparable to OH's comparison to Metzger..."

Context was, I was commenting in response to CS? WHo said it was difficult to hold people liable for their words when they incite violence...I mentioned Metzger as being one guy who was held liable. Though he did actually say people should be killed...directly said it, as opposed to one's interpretation of an indirect call to violence.

uh, hum...minor correction. 187 is penal code section for murder. :content:

 

HH

Think you are right, 186 deals with profiting from organized crime.

Cop Killer Ice T....anyone?

 

Just words. anyone stupid enough to follow his words is responsible and NOBODY else.

When that rap came out, it was banned in a few markets because the belief was it might incite gangbangers to do just that, kill cops. There was a belief that Ice -T should be held liable for inciting a riot/murder if one occurred, big discussion of it at the time.

So really, "Cop Killer" and "186 LAPD" (186 is LAPD code for a homicide) are no different than Palin and the targets and her "...don't retreat, reload..." comments...both are subject for discussion, and both topics called for more less the same result, which was censorship in one case, and self censorship of sorts in another.

 

 

You may at least part of this wrong here. There was a case where a Skin head leader' date=' Metzger was his name I think, was indeed convicted or held liable for inciting the death of an African national. SO it can happen, and maybe should in some cases. Free speech is one thing, but when one incites people to kill, that is another.

 

But you are right, there is not a correlation between legal gun ownership and gun crimes. In many cases, guns help deter violent crime, or crime in general.[/quote']

 

I remember that case actually. As crazy as it sounds at the time I don't think he incited the guy but I'm fuzzy on the details. I have a very high standard though I must admit.

 

 

 

He basically called for the murders of others, and his followers reacted.

If it doesn't meet the standard of violaton of free speech then its acceptable. End of story. It may be unpopular to some but the standard INCLUDES speech that will incite violence or cause harm. Therefore, the Rush, Palin and other such people's words can not be blamed. Can't have it both ways. Blaming them but then agreeing it doesn't meet a legal standard for blame criminally. Again, there is speech done by militias in Idaho, NOI, Supremists, etc. that aren't widely listened but have a hard core audience. These speeches are often way past the standard and do incite violence. Nothing happens. It takes a helluva lot for a normal person to pick up a gun and go kill someone based on someone's rhetoric. There has been vandalism done to property and just to do that for your average working stiff who is pissed off takes a lot. Its why only a few will even do that. Those folks rarely pick up a gun and shoot. Many of us on here and on this thread are very, very pissed off at some things but wouldn't even come close to doing something like that or even destroy property.

 

As far as gun control. I grew up in a city that was very violent and had a lot of guns. I also spent my college years in a city and a county that I would guess had more guns per capita and a gun crime was almost non existent. If America ends gun ownership constitutionally (4/5 of Governors, 2/3 of Congress, President signing off) then to me that would indicate its the will of the people and our culture has changed. Just like a lot of other amendments. Slavery being one, women's vote another. Society changed. People's minds changed.

 

If you want to reduce gun crime the best way to do it is not taking away guns. Improve society. People with jobs, people with hope, people with a decent education, people who come from a family with a loving mother and father generally do not commit gun crimes. Hell, resolve the drug situation and you'd cut a lot of gun crime significantly. Improve the human condition in America and crime will go down. Easier said than done obviously, but lets not blame the existence of guns for the real problem. There are areas of Montana, Idaho, the Dakotas where just about every home has a shotgun or some weapon and nothing happens. These areas have a community, strong family bonds and a culture of mutual respect.

 

You may at least part of this wrong here. There was a case where a Skin head leader, Metzger was his name I think, was indeed convicted or held liable for inciting the death of an African national. SO it can happen, and maybe should in some cases. Free speech is one thing, but when one incites people to kill, that is another.

But you are right, there is not a correlation between legal gun ownership and gun crimes. In many cases, guns help deter violent crime, or crime in general.

Shooting politicians is not a bad thing, as long as the right ones get shot...I mean would some here have shed even a tear if GWB got shot? Didn't think so...

Many of us already are fucked! Taking away or reducing benefits is the growing trend. Sad as it is.

Congress should modify the Bankruptcy laws to allow the various governments to go bankrupt so as to terminate employee benefits and retirements.

I would love to see politicians and corporate rats lose it all in a bankruptcy the same way many of us did...but sadly, that will never happen.

I guess the Republicans in Congress are going to do the right thing and turn in their health care as a prelude for their desire to get rid of Obama Care.

 

55555555555555555555

 

here's the reality of things!

 

2nd person denied Ariz. transplant coverage dies

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_transplant_coverage_death

 

A second person denied transplant coverage by Arizona under a state budget cut has died' date=' with this death "most likely" resulting from the coverage reduction, a hospital spokeswoman said Wednesday.

 

University Medical Center spokeswoman Jo Marie Gellerman said the patient died Dec. 28 at another medical facility after earlier being removed from UMC's list for a liver transplant needed because of hepatitis C.

 

Gellerman cited medical privacy requirements in declining to release any information about the patient.

 

Arizona reduced Medicaid coverage for transplants on Oct. 1 under cuts included to help close a shortfall in the state budget enacted last spring.

 

Officials at the Tucson, Ariz., hospital said the patient's death "most likely" resulted from Arizona's scaling back coverage for transplants, she said...[/quote']

 

 

 

This lousy bastard obviously did something to get Hep C, drank too m uch, drugs, dangerous sex etc...why should we the tax payers have to pay to fix him? It would be different if I needed the transplant of course...

 

 

One of the chaps who wants a lung transplant was a heavy equipment driver. He became disabled. Couldn't pay for his health insurance and now waits - for what looks like his death.

 

The money needed for transplants in Arizona is 1.5 million dollars. The Govenor probably has blown that much and more in her debates about illegals and birth rights.

 

 

Once again, your ignorance is blinding! This tax dollar sucking parasite, CHOSE that job, and full well knew the risks! So why should we hard working real Americans contribute 1 cent (which distinctly says "In GOD WE Trust") to his recovery, clearly, he brought it all on himself!

...you can gt Hep from dirty restaurant workers! and poor hygiene of the restaurant !!

Not true in all cases, or with some forms of Hep...

Hep

I guess the Republicans in Congress are going to do the right thing and turn in their health care as a prelude for their desire to get rid of Obama Care.

 

55555555555555555555

 

here's the reality of things!

 

2nd person denied Ariz. transplant coverage dies

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_transplant_coverage_death

 

A second person denied transplant coverage by Arizona under a state budget cut has died' date=' with this death "most likely" resulting from the coverage reduction, a hospital spokeswoman said Wednesday.

 

University Medical Center spokeswoman Jo Marie Gellerman said the patient died Dec. 28 at another medical facility after earlier being removed from UMC's list for a liver transplant needed because of hepatitis C.

 

Gellerman cited medical privacy requirements in declining to release any information about the patient.

 

Arizona reduced Medicaid coverage for transplants on Oct. 1 under cuts included to help close a shortfall in the state budget enacted last spring.

 

Officials at the Tucson, Ariz., hospital said the patient's death "most likely" resulted from Arizona's scaling back coverage for transplants, she said...[/quote']

 

 

 

This lousy bastard obviously did something to get Hep C, drank too m uch, drugs, dangerous sex etc...why should we the tax payers have to pay to fix him? It would be different if I needed the transplant of course...

Sure, conviction rates are part of the political side of being a prosecutor. Prosecutors are normally, therefore, quite certain of the ability to convict somebody before they indict. I'm pretty sure a lot of guilty folks walk free due to a DA's uncertainty about the evidence being sufficient. On the other hand, defense attorney's aren't exactly to be held in high esteem when it comes to truth-finding.

 

Sadly, we do find a lot of people now having their convictions overturned on DNA evidence. Sad, cuz they've spent years behind bars for crimes they may not have committed.

 

HH

Sadder yet, we have probably executed innocent people.

Instead of improving education, which might mean firing incompetent teachers, school districts do bizarre things. e.g. My nephew scored the highest IQ in the county for 4 or 5 years when he started school. He got put in the "skylab class" - brightest kids in the district. They got put in an old unheated building, while the special ed kids got the best of everything - including access to computers. The smart kids got f*ck all. Also, a neighbour's daughter went to the same high school for 3 years. She was a cheerleader and active in school government. But the school board moved the district lines one block to the north, and the girl had to spend her senior year at a school miles away - where she knew absolutely no one. No exceptions ... she had to go (and it broke her heart).

 

Do school boards ever think about education instead of politics?

 

 

 

Fuck with the teacher's union? are you crazy? That is like fucking with the police or fire unions...or the government workers...it just can be done...

I used to buy food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar downtown LA and use it to buy a lot of meat to put in my freezer. Beef is expensive as you know.

The new card limits that. I was buying the old paper stamps. Also, the welfare reform of the '90s from Clinton further limited how long you could be on welfare and made it tougher to get it.

I totally agree that social welfare has a lot of holes and scammers even with all the changes. However, being a small L libertarian I am for limiting welfare in all its forms. Corporate welfare continues to dwarf the amount we spend on social welfare but because those same corporations, corporate farms, etc. have clout in Washington they still get their perks. I recall reading once years ago how Dole Foods got paid for importing fruit as if they needed help doing that. They and other food companies practically owned large parts of central america. The ExIm Bank and others gave low or no interest loans to companies that didn't need it.

Corporate farms using farm subsidies that were set up for the family farmer and at the same time through their lobbyists trying to kill the small farmer off so they can get their land.

The companies that could use it don't get it a lot of the time because the large companies get the money. There are many families who need social welfare. I grew up with many of them. Families where the father left, jailed or became an addict. The kids didn't ask to be there. Churches like the ones I went to as a kid acted as a kind of social net for a lot of families. (for some of you anti religion types...lol).

 

On a side note, my fervent belief that the best way to cut social welfare is improve schools from K-12. Especially K-6. Doesn't matter how much you spend on HS, if the kids don't have the foundation early it means very little. Give a kid a good education early on that girl or boy won't risk messing up their chance to go to college by having a kid out of wedlock. The most careful girls I knew about who insisted on condoms or didn't have sex at all were the girls that were college bound. I guarantee you that you won't find many straight A teenage girls in the inner city getting pregnant. Early education in the inner city is appallingly bad. HS is not much better. I had to go to a school in the burbs to take calculus for example (didn't help I suck at math...lol).

The card changes nothing...I buy you $20 in food, you give me $10 for booze...or you just give me your card and PIN and say it was stolen...the thumb print and other ways to curtail welfare fraud have all been countered...the guys are just smarter than those hired to stop them...projects and ghettos run on this shit, and "the Man" can do little to stop it.

It works like this, only certain items are covered under food stamps/WIC supplements etc...but they also get some small cash allowance, and sometimes free or heavily subsidized housing. The scam works in several ways...1) they work under the table for cash, 2) they sell drugs/stolen property 3) they sell a $20 food stamp for $12 and buy the booze and cigarettes or other items not covered.

Until Americans as a whole wake up, nothing will change. We can bitch all we want. Of course when HH and others who feel invincible get hit as some of us have, then maybe people will wake up. until know it has just been the working scum...when those who consider themselves "elite" get hit, maybe shit will change...won't hold my breath.

I am sure she loves him very much...

Who?