ranma500 Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 A BG I know is half-Cambodian. She says that some of the girls don't trust her, because they think that Cambodians know witchcraft - sayasat. It has been known for BGs to use magic to entice customers. However, she told me that if you use magic, you have to be very careful, because if you use it too much, it 'poisons' you and then you become a phi bawb. The phi bawbs are immortal and not exactly ghosts. They survive by letting their spirit enter other people's bodies and eat them from inside. Sometimes people go to the hospital with inexplicable illnesses, and the doctors can find no cause, but they die anyway from the effects of the phi bawb. The phi bawb must leave the body before the victim dies, then he can re-enter his own body, re-invigorated. It is hard to kill phi bawbs, but there are apparently 'mor phi's who can have a go. This is about my entire knowledge of sayasat and phi bawbs, but really want to learn more for an article I am now writing. Does the sayasat work with spells or magic symbols, objects, candles? How does the sayasat practitioner become a phi bawb? Do the phi bawbs have any vulnerabilities - i.e. garlic, crosses, etc.? Do they look different, or is it impossible to tell a phi bawb? How can one kill a phi bawb? I have been looking for any written material on the subject, but there seems to be very little written in English on the subject that I can find. Does anyone know of any source of further information, or alternatively: Most Thais have a substantial knowledge of these things. Can anyone add any information they can get from their Thai friends or girlfriends? Be aware that this often has to be someone you know quite well, as Thais are sometimes reluctant even to talk about ghosts! Thanks, ranma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Hi, I wrote an article on superstition for the memberarea a while ago. You might find some info there, although I must admit that I do not think there are any references to this particular ghost. Some comments... "A BG I know is half-Cambodian. She says that some of the girls don't trust her, because they think that Cambodians know witchcraft - sayasat." Let me guess, she is from Surin? A lot of Thais believe that Surin is the home of Thai witchcraft. "However, she told me that if you use magic, you have to be very careful, because if you use it too much, it 'poisons' you and then you become a phi bawb." A "bawb" is something like a sin. Using this kind of witchcraft is considered immoral, a sin. The catholic equivalent would be something like going to hell for your sins, I suppose. It is only considered a "bawb" if it is used for evil though. So, using it to enchant a man is a "bawb", but for a woman to use it to get her cheating husband to return it is not a "bawb". "Does the sayasat work with spells or magic symbols, objects, candles?" I am not sure if this is the same, since I have never heard the term sayasat, but this is what I know about it. I think it is fairly close to voodoo in that many of the magics are done to influence people, having them fall in love, get ill, etc. Some of the ingredients I have heard about being used are nailclippings, hair, menstrual blood, unborn fetusses. Would be really interested in reading the article once finished, btw. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranma500 Posted March 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Actually Buriram. But pretty damn close. The only thing I know about the magic at the moment is that they use spells read in Pali. These are not written but remembered and passed on from generation to generation. Thanks for your feedback. I am wondering if any Universities have experts on mythology? ranma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharcyde Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 If you are in bangkok you should go to the library of the chulalongkorn university. it is located behind mall boon klong in direction towards rama 4 rd. They might have some sources there to help you with your article. Also, you could check this book by Terwiel, B. J. 1975. "Monks and Magic: An Analysis of Religious Ceremonies in Central Thailand." Good luck on the ghost-haunt Pharcyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haltest Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 You also might want to look at the story of Nang Nak ¹Ò§¹Ò¡ which is a really old story or legend and has been made into a film/tv series many times. Nang Nak is a ¼Õ¾ÃÒ (ghost who died giving birth), There is also a film about a Borp (»Ãº) I saw it a while ago so I can;t remember if it went on about vulnereablities but I think they did manage to sort the ghost out in the end. Its typical thai horror/slapstick with the obligator kathoey. I wrote a short piece on Nang Nak when I was learning Thai which can give you some additional info. Sorry I don't have time to rewrite it /translate it at present but I hope it gives some additional food for thought. ¹Ò§¹Ò¡ à Ã×èç¢Ã§¹Ò§¹Ò¡à »ç¹Êèǹ˹Ö觢çÇѲ¹¸ÃÃÃä·Â ¤¹ä·Â·Ø¡¤¹ÃÙé¨Ñ¡¹Ò§¹Ò¡ áÃè¢Ã§à ´ç¡ãªéà Ã×èç¢Ã§¹Ò§¹Ò¡¢Ùè·ÓãËéà ´ç¡æ¡ÅÑÇ ¶éÒà ´ç¡¤¹ä˹«¹ áÅÃà Ã×èç¢Ã§¹Ò§¹Ò¡à ¤Âãªé·Óà »ç¹Ë¹Ñ§ÃÒ¡¡ÇèÒ òð ¤ÃÑé§ ÃÂèÒ§äáçµÒà à Ã×èçÃÒǤÇÒáÅÑÇà ¡ÕèÂǡѺ¹Ò§¹Ò¡ ·ÓãËéºÒ§¤¹¾ÂÒÂÒÃËÒ¤ÇÒÃ⪤´Õâ´Â¡ÒÃà ´Òà »ç¹ÃÃµà µÃÃÕè »Ñ¨¨ØºÑ¹¹Õé·ÕèÇÑ´ÃËÒºØÂÃÕà ¨´ÕÂì¢Ã§¹Ò§¹Ò¡ »ÃêҪ¹¹ÓÃÒËÒà ¼ÅäÃé áÅôáäÃéä»ãËéà ¸à ÃÕ¡·Ñé§à Ê×éüéÒáÅÃ¢Ã§à ´ç¡à Åè¹ä»ãËéÅÙ¡¢Ã§à ¸à ·Ø¡æ¤¹¨Ø´¸Ù» ò ´Ã¡ Ãѹ˹Öè§à ¾×èÃà ¸ÃáÅÃÃÕ¡Ãѹ˹Öè§à ¾×èÃÅÙ¡¢Ã§à ¸à äÃèÃÕã¤ÃÃÙéÇèÒ¹Ò§¹Ò¡à »ç¹¤¹ËÃ×Ãà »ç¹á¤èµÑÇÅäÃã¹¹ÔÂÒ äÃèÃÕËÅÑ¡°Ò¹ºÃ¡ÇèÒà Ã×èç¢Ã§¹Ò§¹Ò¡à »ç¹¤ÇÒèÃÔ§ËÃ×ÃäÃè ¤¹ÊèǹãËÂèà ª×èÃÇèÒà Ã×èç¢Ã§¹Ò§¹Ò¡à »ç¹¤ÇÒèÃÔ§ ¹ÔÂÒÂâºÃÒ³ºÃ¡¾Ç¡à ÃÒÇèÒ¹Ò§¹Ò¡à »ç¹¤¹¡ÃØ§à ·¾à ¡Ô´·Õè¾ÃÃ⢹§à Ã×èà ñóð »Õ·ÕèáÅéÇ ã¹ÊÃÑÂÃѪ¡ÒÅ·Õè ô (ñøõñ-ñøöø) áÅÃä´é¤ÅôÅÙ¡µÒÂã¹ÊÃÑÂÃѪ¡ÒÅ·Õèõ(ñøöø-ñùñð) ºÒ§¤¹à ª×èÃÇèÒ¹Ò§¹Ò¡ÃÕªÕÇÔµÃÂÙèã¹ÊÃÑÂÃѪ¡ÒÅ·Õèó(ñøôñ-ñøõñ) áÅúҧ¤¹¤Ô´ÇèÒà Ã×èçÃÒǢç¹Ò§¹Ò¡à ¡Ô´¢Öé¹à Ã×èà òðð »Õ·ÕèáÅéÇ·ÕèÃÂظÂÒ à Ã×èç¢Ã§¹Ò§¹Ò¡ÃÕËÅÒÂÃٻẺ·ÕèᵡµèÒ§ ºéÒ§ºÃ¡ÇèÒà ¸Ãà »ç¹ÅÙ¡ÊÒǪÒǹÒ ºéÒ§ºÃ¡ÇèÒà ¸Ãà »ç¹ÅÙ¡ÊÒǼÙéãËÂèºéÒ¹ áµèµÃ¹¨º¢Ã§·Ø¡à Ã×èçà ËÃ×ù¡Ñ¹¤×ùҧ¹Ò¡µÒ áµè˹ѧ·Õè¼Ãä´é´Ùà »ç¹Ë¹Ñ§ãËÃèÅèÒÊØ´áÅÃÃÕ¡ÒÃãªéÀÒÉÒÊÃÑÂà ¡èÒ«Öè§ã¹»Ñ¨¨ØºÑ¹¹Õ餹ä·ÂäÃèãªéà ¾ÃÒÃäÃèÊØÀÒ¾ÃÂèÒ§à ªè¹ ¡Ù,ÃÖ§,ÇÃ,à Ãç§ ÃÃ…Ã ÃÒ¡¡Ñº¹Ò¡ÃÂÙè´éÇ¡ѹáÅÃà Ã×èùҡµÑ駷éçÃÒ¡µéçä»à »ç¹·ËÒà ã¹ÃÃËÇèÒ§·ÕèÃÒ¡ÃÃÃ¡Ãºà ¢Òä´éÃѺºÒ´à ¨çºÃÒ¡áÅþÃôÙáÅÃÒ¡ ã¹ÃÃËÇèÒ§¹Õé¹Ò¡ä´é¤ÅôÅÙ¡áÅõÒ ªÒǺéÒ¹½Ñ§¹Ò¡áÅÃÅÙ¡ à Ã×èÃÃÒ¡¡ÅѺÃÒºéÒ¹à ¢Òà ¨ÃÃÒ¡áÅÃÅÙ¡áµèÃÒ¡äÃèÃÙéÇèÒ¹Ò¡µÒÂáÅéÇ à ¾×èùºéÒ¹¢Ã§ÃÒ¡ºÃ¡ÇèÒ¹Ò¡µÒÂáÅéÇáÅÃà »ç¹¼Õ¾ÃÒ áÅä¹·ÕèºÃ¡ÃÒ¡¶Ù¡¦èÒµÒ áµèÃÒ¡äÃèà ª×èÃÇèÒ¹Ò¡à »ç¹¼Õ Çѹ˹Öè§à Ã×èÃÃÒ¡·Ó§Ò¹ÃÂÙèãµé¶Ø¹ºéÒ¹ à ¢Òà Ëç¹¹Ò¡Â×è¹Ã×ÃËÂÔºÃùÒÇ·Õè¾×é¹áÅ÷ÓãËéÃÒ¡à ª×èÃÇèÒ¹Ò¡à »ç¹¼Õ ÃÒ¡¡ÅÑÇÃÒ¡ áÅÃÇÔè§Ë¹Õä»·ÕèÇÑ´ ªÒǺéÒ¹à ¼ÒºéÒ¹¢Ã§ÃÒ¡áÅùҡµÒÃÃÒ·ÕèÇÑ´ áµè¾ÃêèÇÂäÃèä´é áÅÃÃÕ¾ÃÃç¤ì˹Öè§ä»·Õè·Õè½Ñ§È¾¹Ò§¹Ò¡ áÅúáãËéÇÔÂÂÒ³¢Ã§¹Ò§¹Ò¡ä»à ¡Ô´ áÅùҧ¹Ò¡¡çä»à ¡Ô´ ËÅѧ¨Ò¡¹Ñé¹ÃÒ¡¡çºÇªà »ç¹¾Ãà Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brink15 Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 I'll have my wife translate your story. I've seen one of the Nang Nak movies andenjoyed it quite a bit. There is a Wat on Suk. (or near Suk.) that has a shrine to Mair Nak (Nang Nak). It suposedly contains her bones. Spooky stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmine Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 [color:"red"] Nang Nak is a ¼Õ¾ÃÒ (ghost who died giving birth), [/color] The "Phee Prai" is not a ghost who dies at child birth, it is called "Phee Tai Tong glom". The ¼Õ¾ÃÒ is a ghost normally lives in waters such as river or lakes. I posted about " Borp (»Ãº)" once under language section. Borp (»Ãº) lives in a human body and goes out at night. I grew up in a Northern province of Thailand and many deaths were blamed on the ghost. However, my father told me that those deaths were caused by malaria. I have a book in Thai someplace with some scientific explanation, if I find it I will translate and post. Jasmine :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pescator Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Hi Jasmine, The "Phee Prai" is not a ghost who dies at child birth, it is called "Phee Tai Tong glom". The ¼Õ¾ÃÒ is a ghost normally lives in waters such as river or lakes. Interesting stuff. I recall reading that the name of the ghost who dies at child birth is called "Phee Tai Hong"?? I just checked the spelling. (transliterated anyway.) It was in the book The Thai and I by Rooger Welty. Mayby you could write the actual spelling in thai of the Phee Tai Tong Glom? Cheers Hua Nguu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCorinthian Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 Didn't someone make a movie about this a few years ago in Thai?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Oh, my ... haven't heard these tales since I left the north. I'm told it used to be really bad for someone accused of being a pee bawp. They would be run out of their village and had to live in a community of other similar outcasts. Didn't think anyone still believed it, but BGs are BGs. Some of them come from the most remote places imaginable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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