Is LER(r) a real word? Flasher/DaengBireley/ScumBa

[luckyfarang]

<<I suggest that if you can't find it in any dictionary then that suggests strongly that it isn't a word! >>

 

 

If it is a word so common that you hear it spoken every day, that would tend to suggest that it IS a word and that the dictionaries are incomplete and outdated.

 

[luckyfarang]

<<I suggest that if you can't find it in any dictionary then that suggests strongly that it isn't a word! >>

 

It may not be in the dictionary, but it is in the AUA language textbook.

 

[luckyfarang]

<<<a lot of the boardmembers you are addressing have retired from the board already.>>>

 

It's a shame that Scum_Baggio and Flashermac don't post here anymore. They were a great resource on the subtleties of the Thai language.

 

<<< I have asked several thais, how the "ler" at the end of the sentence is written and surprisingly i got several different answers. however all confirmed that rue and ler are different words and are written differently>>>

 

It's good to hear that Markle misconstrued your original post as saying that RUE and LER were the same word.

 

I already knew that they were different words from my own experience speaking the language, but when challenged by someone who can read the language, I like to get confirmation from another source.

 

<<<i can't find it in any dictionary; this is very informal spoken thai and this word is usually not written.>>>

 

This is why I accused Markle of speaking 'textbook' Thai, even before I knew of his actual level of experience.

 

Anyone who relies on the dictionary as an absolute, reliable source of information on a rapidly evolving and highly idiomatic language such as Thai, will eventually make some mistakes. Just as an illiterate but fluent speaker of Thai will inevitably make some mistakes.

 

And this is where we can REALLY help each other benefit from reading the language section of this board.

 

When words in VERY common usage such as LER are not found in the phrase books and dictionaries, the only way to learn their proper usage, short of immersing oneself in Thai society, is to benefit from the experiences of those who have.

 

I will say it again:

 

IT IS ALL IN THE USAGE!

 

There often is not just one correct answer when learning how to use a particular Thai word. The important thing when speaking is learning how to express yourself so that a Thai will understand.

 

It is important to know when a word is primarily written, not spoken.

 

It is important to know when a word could be taken as rude, even if it is not always rude. Conversely, it is important to know when using a rude word might not be considered rude.

 

It is important to know when a word is only used by females and gays.

 

It is important to know when a word is slang, or regional dialect. These words do often show up in the dictionary.

 

There is a highly regarded text at least forty years old called "The Fundamentals of the Thai Language" by Campbell, I believe. This book is replete with errors and is dangerous to use in trying to learn to speak Thai. It may have some use for beginners trying to learn to read and write Thai, but I'm sure there must be better books available for that.

 

In my opinion, there is NO good Thai-English dictionary in print. Most of these are written by some Thai general who may be 100% fluent in Thai and 95% fluent in English.

 

The result is that many Thai translations of English words in the Thai-English dictionary are simply word for word translations (English into Thai) of the definition in an English dictionary.

 

This results in many definitions that are useless to Thais, and failure to show the actual usages, connotations and nuances of Thai words for farang learning Thai.

 

 

 

 

[luckyfarang]

<<<LER at the end of a sentence makes it into a question (like mai) but when in the question you have said something you think is likely to be true >>>

 

Here is my take on this:

 

REU® is the question word at the end of a sentence when in doubt about the answer. Using it in this manner is awkward, outdated sounding textbook Thai, and rarely, if ever, heard in actual conversation.

 

In the middle of a sentence, it simply means "or".

 

MAI(h) is the most common question word at the end of a sentence that indicates you don't know the answer, or are asking the speaker to make up his/her mind about something.

 

LER® at the end of a sentence is asking for confirmation when you think you know the answer:

 

PAI THEEO(f) SAO® LER®?

 

When used by itself, LER translates most closely as "Is that so?"

 

 

<<< I was told by TGF that I should try not to say LER because it is commonly used by women but not by men.>>>

 

 

Interesting. I have been hanging around mainly with women for years , so I will have to ask around if using LER makes one sound effeminate.

 

CHAI(f) MAI(h)? does seem to have a very similar meaning when used as a question word, but is used a lot less frequently by the Thais, and I try to avoid using it too much. It gives a different and more aggressive, Western sounding feel when used to make a question.

 

And CHAI(f) MAI(h) cannot be used alone to mean "Is that so" like LER® can. When used alone, it gives a meaning much closer to CHING REU(h) PLAO(l).

 

 

[Guest]

Unless we can actually hear a fluent Thai speaker say the different words frequently or have the spelling of these words in Thai, its IMO best to give this a rest.

 

Reason if I see someone spell LER or RUE or LOH or ROH or anything similar and I'm asked what Thai word it is or what does it mean in English, I'm really at a loss unless I I see how its written in Thai, or spoken in proper context by a good Thai speaker.

 

It's already difficult enough to translate a single Thai word. Translating one phonetically spelled is almost impossible.

 

One mentioned that if it's not in a dictionary it's not a Thai words. That's not so. All Thai-English dictionaries that I have come accross have limited vocabulary. àËÃà and ËÃà for instance ARE existing words not found.

 

 

Cheers

[luckyfarang]

<<<Unless we can actually hear a fluent Thai speaker say the different words frequently or have the spelling of these words in Thai, its IMO best to give this a rest.>>>

 

I am ready to give it a rest, but it is impossible to ignore such a useful and frequently used word as LER just because it is not found in the dictionary.

 

[markle]

I'll rest my case.

My contention all along has been that LER is simply a corruption of the proper word REU (in much the same way that 'yeah', 'yo', etc are corruptions of the proper word 'yes'). Anyone familiar with the language would know that this happens all the time.

I got this from the So Sethaputra New Modern Dictionary Thai English and I have cross-checked it with Thai -Thai dictionaries and with University educated Thais (the transliteration is mine)

ËÃ×à (REU)an interrogative used at the end of a question that requires a yes-or-no answer.

¤Ø³ä»·Õè¹Ñè¹ÃÒáÅéÇËÃ×à (Khun pai tee nun ma laew reu?) Have you been there ?

ÃÂèÒ§¹Ñé¹ËÃ×à (Yang nan reu) Is that so ?

ËÃ×äêà (ËÃ×äÃѺ) (reu kha/krap) Yes ? (I see, Oh)

which covers pretty much all the usages put forward for the word LER so I can't see how you could argue that it was a different word.

 

[Pescator]

One mentioned that if it's not in a dictionary it's not a Thai words. That's not so. All Thai-English dictionaries that I have come accross have limited vocabulary àËÃà and ËÃà for instance ARE existing words not found.

---

 

Hi O,

 

I agree. And I would like to add to that, that if a word is commonly used by thai native speakers I for one couldn`t really care less if it is in the dic or not. And I suppose most learners feel the same way. I like to talk the kind of thai spoken by the people around me - to the best of my ability anyway - and not some dusty archaic textbook thai.

I don`t exactly have an academic approach to learning thai more like the "immersion method", so I occasionally pick up some words that I suppose are not in the dic as well.

 

MAE wan nee dtaeng dtua suay jang loey.

Pbai nai NIA

OHOO

Mai dtong maa tarm guu na WOEI

AOW mai ruu LOR?

 

 

Guess there are plenty of these.

 

Cheers

Hua Nguu

 

 

[bibblies]

The point is that if it isn't in the dictionary then it's likely to be a spoken corruption of another word, innit? Like "innit"'s a common corruption of "isn't it". :: Just because it's not in the dictionary doesn't mean you can't say it but then again, doesn't mean it's a separate word in itself. Color=Colour, ConTROversy=CONtroversy, Reu=Ler (sorry, no Thai keyboard). And those "dusty" tomes are occasionally updated, btw!

 

I agree with what markle says just above your post. I thought Jasmine's post pointed the same way too.

[Pescator]

Hi Bibblies,

 

The point is that if it isn't in the dictionary then it's likely to be a spoken corruption of another word, innit

---

 

Not necessarily.

The words mentioned by me are not spoken corruptions of another word, to the best of my knowledge anyway.

The only similar words I can think of right now in english would be something like Gosh, Wauw or Oops.

Auxiliary words to convey a certain sentiment and without a definite meaning on their own.

 

Cheers

Hua Nguu