soongmak Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Anybody ever seen the film "Straw Dogs" by Sam Peckinpah? Might make for an interesting viewing experience for anybody who contemplates moving upcountry. This movie provides an excellent example of a worst-case scenario, I kid you not! The film is about an American nerdish proffessor (played to perfection by Dustin Hoffman) who decides to avoid the riots at the universities in the U.S. (we're talking early seventies here) and moves with his young trophy wife to her birth town in England, somewhere upcountry. He is not accepted by the local yokels and the tension between the american professor and the locals slowly builds up. The handymen the professor has hired to his garage are lazy and just hang around all day. They show no respect for him and hit on his wife. On the way to town he gets a signal from the guys in the truck in front of him that it is safe to overtake, and he nearly escapes a crash with a tractor while overtaking. Then the couples' cat goes missing and when they find him again, the cat is strangled and hanging in his bedroom closet, leaving the frightful message that they can get into their bedroom. All the while, the professor is afraid to confront the men and chooses to ignore the issues. Instead he accepts a hunting invitation, hoping to build a bond that way. On the huting trip the yokels leave him stranded in the middle of nowhere and two of the guys take advantage of his absense and rape his wife. The film ends with a violent climax in which the locals put the professor's house under siege. If this film was about a farang-thai relationship and the guy in question would have decided to move upcountry in thailand, you would have a film that would be the talk of this messageboard for sure. Lots of the details in this film could also apply to a farang who would decide to move upcountry to live with his thai wife: - The husband is a rich man in a town where most of the men are jobless and they equally envy and despise everything he stands for: money, education and succes; - He has no knowledge whatsoever about the town he is living in and has no interest in it as well; - He has snatched away the most beautiful woman in town, to the envy of all young men who lust for her; -The workmen who are hired to fix the garage basically do nothing but hang around all day; - The local police force is a joke; - There is tension in the marriage, because of a number of reasons: vast difference in intellectual capacity between the two of them; She craves for attention he is not willing to give; She despises his cowardly behavior towards the village men; He wants peace and quiet around him, but gets constantly distracted by her. Place this film in Thailand and you have your basic nightmare situation where all your dreams about retirement and peaceful country life will go to pieces. Is there anybody on this board who lives (or has lived) upcountry and has had nasty experiences as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pescator Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 If this film was about a farang-thai relationship and the guy in question would have decided to move upcountry in thailand, you would have a film that would be the talk of this messageboard for sure Well, this film is NOT about a farang-thai relationship and frankly I dont even know why you are posting this imaginary scenario. Sure it could happen in Thailand (upcountry or elsewhere) as it could happen just about anywhere else in the world :: Cheers Hua Nguu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soongmak Posted July 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Off course this could happen anywhere in the world, but that's not the point. This board revolves about living in Thailand and all issues that surrounds it. I don't have to tell you that many members of this board are involved with a thai woman and many are contemplating a move to thailand. I don't have to tell you that most members of the board who get involved with a thai woman have a better education and more money than their wifes or girlfriends. I think it is also understood that we as farangs are mostly outsiders in thai culture and that being outsider, besides having vast advantages, also brings a lot of difficulties into play. Also our predisposition to resolve problems in an intelligent and peaceful manner might not be the way that big issues are handled upcountry. How would we cope with that? I personally do not know a single movie that adresses all these elements in such an intelligent, thought provoking and brutal way as Straw Dogs. The fact that it is not about a thai-farang relationship is not so important, but that it easily COULD be. Therefore it could make an interesting viewing for anyone who is about to embark on a serious relationship with a Thai woman and contemplating the move to upcountry Thailand. I am sorry that you are not willing to look beyond the bare facts (farang relationship in England) and look at the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyfarang Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 I think that most of the natural resentment in a Thai village would be hidden behind the typical mindless insincere smiles, with the possible exception of a drunken exboyfriend of the girl married to the farang. Your main worry would be sneaky burglary, not violence, IMO. In many cases, the farang would be contributing to the local temple and gaining some degree of face in the village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 I think a correlation between, what is essentially a very peace loving and warm society (Thai) and rednecks from a remote North American timber village is not on mark. Yes, it can happen. But, in our minds, maybe The Sounds of Music is a more apt correlation Singing and dancing, with a sweet smiling issan girl, in the mountain mist, hoo lala Maybe you should focus on the numerous errors, Dustin made in is attempts to be isolated, then liked or to fit in, without firts, making a serious attempt to understand the culture of his environment. Instead of the bombastic or superior attitude he displayed in his character role. This is the same mistakes, that may land you in trouble, when residng in a new location - North America or Thailand. Lighten up Smoke em if you have em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovineye Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 I think we should concentrate on how hot Susan George was in that movie. OH MAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soongmak Posted July 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Maybe you should focus on the numerous errors, Dustin made in is attempts to be isolated, then liked or to fit in, without firts, making a serious attempt to understand the culture of his environment...... He did make a lot of misstakes, but don't we all? What matters is how people respond to it. ...Instead of the bombastic or superior attitude he displayed in his character role. The way he rubbed the minister the wrong way in a matter of seconds was a classic! I was also rolling on the floor when he complemented his wife because she understood the concept of binary numbers: "See? You're not so dumb." If I would pull a stunt like that, my gf would kill me! Lighten up I am lighting one up right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Thought-provoking post ! I'm the first one to say that Thai life has many, many possible pitfalls, that Thai society can be stacked against us, that the complexities one may find himself in up there can be violent and dangerous, etc. But does this movie really represent a possible worst-case scenario in up-country Thailand? I have not seen the movie, but here are my thoughts about the points you raised: - The husband is a rich man in a town where most of the men are jobless and they equally envy and despise everything he stands for: money, education and succes; I think this would hinge on whether they live in a manner that's out of place in their local surroundings -- mansion among trailers, ostentatious mannerisms, etc. I have not seen the movie, so I can't comment on how this relates, but I can say that many farangs (especially on this board) contemplating such a move tend to be more down to earth than that, and so the locals probably don't really have a good grasp of just how rich, educated, or successful he is. If the guys with his GF builds a place that's not some huge mansion out of place in an Isaan village, for example, I think the effect you describe wouldn't be all that motivating as far as making the locals hate him. - He has no knowledge whatsoever about the town he is living in and has no interest in it as well; Again not having seen the movie. Did he get a little of "what goes around comes around" -- not saying that rape and such are ever acceptable, just wondering the degree to which he contributed to his own circumstances. In my experience Thai people more readily accept disparities in wealth -- it's a fundamental part of the social system, no? -- again, I'm not sure this would motivate Thai people to direct and specific hatred. - He has snatched away the most beautiful woman in town, to the envy of all young men who lust for her; Well, this one could be an issue, especially if there are hidden factors at play in terms of the girl's relationship with others in the village (as there often are in Thailand). -The workmen who are hired to fix the garage basically do nothing but hang around all day; Again an issue to be sure, but, upcountry at least, at least some of these guys who could be cause for concern actually do work in the fields and then do work hard. The work is just paced much differently than we are used to for unskilled labor in the west. - The local police force is a joke; Direct correlation there -- except that if the farang is perceived to be "jai dee" in the village he may have people willing to take up his cause and defend him and his family. Such is the nature of village life. - There is tension in the marriage, because of a number of reasons: vast difference in intellectual capacity between the two of them; She craves for attention he is not willing to give; She despises his cowardly behavior towards the village men; He wants peace and quiet around him, but gets constantly distracted by her. In the movie, how does this relate to the relationship these 2 had with the people around them in the village? This movie sounds interesting, I think I will have to check it out. Is it on DVD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun_Kong Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Says KhMarried: -The workmen who are hired to fix the garage basically do nothing but hang around all day; I am at the same time astounded by both .the snail's pace and the rapid progress of workmen in Thailand. I live on a very small sub-soi in Pattaya, 2 houses, one 4-unit townhouse.2 months ago, our street was ripped away to do something with the sewer system. They finally poured the new road yesterday! Progress has been excruciateingly slow, especially so since (1) raw sewage has destroyed my well (now have a large stainless steel tank for fresh water) and (2) there is a 2-foot high difference between my driveway and the current road. Makes putting the motorbike away a pain-in-the-ass. On the other hand, at the girlfriends house in Loie, it took only 5 days for 3 workmen to: Lay the foundation and block for the remaining wall of her good-sized home, construct the hong naam, build by hand a very fancy front door frame, surrounded by windows, pour the floor for the entire house and coat all of the walls, inside and outside, with 2 coats of cement to prep the walls for painting. Paid each guy about 250 Baht per day, maybe this made a difference. We weren't even there to supervise the work, although her parents live on the adjacent property. RE: "Straw Dogs". Dustin Hoffman plays the role of the ineffective, intelligent-yet-stupid, professor whose "skills" are worthless in his new environment.to perfection. What a twit. And Susan George...!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soongmak Posted July 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Does this movie really represent a possible worst-case scenario in up-country Thailand? Hi KhM, No it is not a likely worst-case scenario unless you would be really, really unlucky. I think this would hinge on whether they live in a manner that's out of place in their local surroundings -- mansion among trailers, ostentatious mannerisms, etc. If you look at their house it is nothing spectacular, it is the house that was previously owned by her father. The only way it stands out is by it's location; completely isolated and just out of town, as to symbolize how much the professor stands out. The way they behave is not really offending: She likes to dress sexy and wears, in the spirit of the times, no bra, and that draws attention for sure. What makes them stand out is that they drive a convertible sports car and he is pretty smug about his education. He calls himself an astro-mathematician and says that he works with radiation, but he feels no need to explain himself any further, because these poor upcountry folks sure wouldn't be able to grasp what his job is all about. For the rest, I'd say they keep a low profile and basically mind their own business. I think the effect you describe wouldn't be all that motivating as far as making the locals hate him. What was so disturbing about this movie was that there was no real reason for these hickies to dislike the couple. I come from a small town myself and I have seen this happen to newcomers as well; shunned simply because of the fact that they were outsiders. People were nice to their faces but sneaky and treacherous behind their backs. Any tight community can be very hostile, especially if some of the more influential folks don't like you. The reason why doesn't always seem to matter. Just imagine living in a remote Thai village and the local Phu Yai Bahn hates your guts. He has snatched away the most beautiful woman in town, to the envy of all young men who lust for her; Well, this one could be an issue, especially if there are hidden factors at play in terms of the girl's relationship with others in the village (as there often are in Thailand). Spot on! One of the guys in the village was her former boyfriend. When he hints at the fact that they may have had something in the past, she says that the guy did try, but she wouldn't have him - a blatant lie. In one of the early scenes of the movie the husband visits the local pub to buy a pack of american (!) cigarettes and his wife stays in the car, talking with her former lover. He says to her: "Remember when I used to take care of you?" to which she replies "Remember that you didn't?" suggesting that she has left him because of the fact that he wasn't a good provider. Also, you ask how the marital problems relate to their relation with the villagers. The professor basically lives in his own head and is completely absorbed by his work. Whenever his wife calls him, it is not welcomed by him, but seen mostly as a distraction. As a consequence, she starts looking elsewhere for attention and is not shy to make the work men (including her former lover) a little crazy by showing of her body. She is not flirting with the men, it's more like "I am beyond your reach and look what your missing!" She seems both repelled by the workers' simplicity, as she is attracted by the animal-like behaviour they display. Again not having seen the movie. Did he get a little of "what goes around comes around". Well she certainly did! Both her repulsion and attraction to the men are shown in the infamous rape scene that plays a pivotal part in this movie. Feminists reportedly went mad over that scene, because at first she refuses her former lover, but submisses to him when he slaps her around a bit and actually seems to enjoy the sex in the end, what makes this scene so complex and controversial. Things really go bad when another one of the guys holds her former lover at gun point and rapes her as well, clearly without her consent. When they have to attend a church party the next day, continious short flashbacks of the rape show that the incident is still very much troubling her. The rape scene is in no way advocating that it is okay to rape a woman and that "no" actually means, "yes please!" The movie is out on DVD, I rented it sunday night (living in the Netherlands) and will buy this one as well. I am sure it is available through Amazon or any other reputable DVD store on the internet. If you see it by any chance, lety me know just what you think! Cheers, soongmak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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