Would this be illegal

[mongatu]

Suppose a person was in Thailand on a visa that did not permit working in Thailand. Further suppose that that person could perform consulting work to clients in his or her home country via the internet while the person was in Thailand, and the fees for such consulting would be deposited directly into a bank in the home country.

 

Would this be illegal? (I suppose it technically would be.) Next question, how likely would it be that this person would ever get caught since his or her work had nothing to do with anything in Thailand, and was entirely done in the privacy of the home via the internet and no money was ever sent to Thailand?

 

 

[Guest]

the likelyhood to be caught would be as close to zero as you can get.

[StoneSoup]

I make a business out of helping foreigners incorporate businesses here, and obtain work permits, etc. See my company's advertising banner up at the top of this page.

 

And I'm here to tell you - I agree 100% with fly. There is no way you have anything to worry about.

 

Your only concern is with having to frequently leave Thailand (I would suggest staying away from dodgy visa services for at least the next 90 days).

 

Cheers!

Stone Soup

[mongatu]

Thanks for the quick responses. You confirmed what I thought. (Btw, this of course, is just a hypothetical situation.)

[Guest]

Last year I had some problems with a serious overstay on my 1 year non-immigrant O visa, because I lost my passport. Had to visit the Immigration Police here in Bangkok twice and I asked them about the specific situation you describe. Although at first I didn't get a straight answer, they finaly agreed that this would not be a violation of the rules regarding work. These rules are to protect the Thai workforce from 'unfair' foreign competition.

 

The only reason I leave the country every 90 days, although I've a one year multiple entry visa is to avoid having to obtain tax certificates, which could be quite complecated. I pay the taxes I'm supposed to pay (my bank deduct tax automatically, and so on). With friends in all surrounding countries and once a year a week back home to stay in touch with the family these trips are no big deal anyway.

[mongatu]

Well this brings up another question then.

 

The person I am talking about was considering moving to LOS on a retirement visa because he/she thinks he/she can meet the requirements, i.e., over age 50, and can put the required amount in a Thai bank, etc. But the person is self employed and could continue to do some limited work as described in the original post. What is the issue re tax certificates that you refer to? Could you explain more about the reasons why it might be better to leave every 90 days. Thanks.

[rickfarang]

So...staying hypothetical:

 

If this person had to mail out several small padded envelopes to his customers every few days, possibly even by express mail, he would no longer be "under the radar". This goes beyond just consulting over the internet.

 

Do you imagine that this would be legal?

 

RickF

[StoneSoup]

No problem. Think for a moment about all the hotel business centers in Thailand. Do you imagine that they are all set up mainly to service the needs of local residents?

 

As long as you are not drawing a salary or putting in regular hours working for an organization inside Thailand - and you are not invoicing clients who are inside Thailand, you are off the radar screen.

 

Stone Soup

[Guest]

 

StoneSoup

To open up a dead business, which many have, what does this take so a visa is issued with it. What is the amount that has to be deposited in a bank for a person that does not have steady income, is it 2 million or 10 million. Maybe just better to buy this million baht prefered guest visas.

[StoneSoup]

wcv56 - (Hey ? I?m ?56 vintage myself!)

 

I?m not exactly sure what you mean by ?dead business?. If you mean a previously registered company that has been dormant, without having been shut down, then here are some of the considerations:

 

1. Failure to make required periodic financial submissions incurs a fine ? I know this applies to at least six-month and annual financial statements. If I remember correctly, the fine totals about 3,00 baht per year. Check this out.

 

2. Individual shareholders of a Thai Private Co. Ltd. are PERSONALLY liable to creditors for any unpaid debts, if a company is insolvent, and there is no record that the shareholder paid in registered capital. If all registered capital is documented to have been paid in at any point ? then shareholders have no personal liability. So ? beware purchasing shares of a ?dormant? company, only to learn that capital was never paid in, and there are active creditor claims outstanding.

 

With respect to getting a Class B visa, and then using that to ultimately obtain a long-term entry permit (requiring just reporting to Immigration every 90 days), the key to getting an entry permit extension is obtaining and maintaining a work permit.

 

Concerning work permits and entry permit extensions ? at this point in time, neither Labor Ministry nor Immigration are actually requiring that bank records be shown to reflect capital pay in. All that is required is a statement signed by a director, saying that registered capital has been paid in. How do you feel about making false statements?

 

Note: There is no requirement to maintain a minimum bank balance. If two million baht in registered capital was EVER paid in, then that company is qualified for one foreign work permit ? as long as the company survives.

 

With respect to maintaining work permits, the more practical problems are:

 

1. You must be paying taxes on a personal salary that ? for most westerners ? will soon be 60,000 baht per month. Tax receipts must be shown.

 

2. You must show documentation (receipts) verifying that your company is making social fund contributions (equal to 8% of a minimum salary that is about 6,000 baht per month) for at least four Thai employees, per work permit.

 

3. You must be present in Thailand on an entry permit issued against a non-immigrant visa on both the day you submit your work permit application, and the day two weeks later when you pickup your blue work permit booklet.

 

4. In order to get work permit, you must have company tax registration documents. To get these, you must have a real office, with your company nameplate alongside the entrance (you must submit location map and photos of office entrance), and you must submit a document from your building owner certifying that your company is a tenant.

 

It is my impression that the Thai government is just beginning the process of driving out of Thailand all foreigners who have been ?hanging out? here by stringing together endless 30 day visas on arrival ? via either border runs, or dodgy visa services. Genuine tourists will be unaffected, and employed or retired expats, or those married to Thais, will just have to pay higher immigration fees. But all the hangers-on in-between are going to be under pressure to move on.

 

I think this situation will result in the following outcomes:

 

1. An increase in ?marriages of convenience? to Thai ladies.

 

2. An increase in the number of foreigners scraping together ?barely breathing? companies, in an attempt to achieve legitimacy.

 

In turn, I think item #2 above will result in:

 

1. An increase in the number of dormant, or ?distressed? companies (complete with ?skeletons in the closets?) being unloaded onto unsuspecting foreigners who view this as an easier route than starting their own companies.

 

2. After a brief interval, an increase in the level of scrutiny that Thai officialdom starts applying to review of all small foreign companies, in an attempt to ?flush out? shell operations and other ?dodgy? enterprises. (this being part of the endless ?cat and mouse? arms race)

 

I hope I answered your question, somewhere in there!

 

Be alert. Bangkok needs more lerts!

StoneSoup