Central Scrutinizer Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 All, Just wondering if anyone else had heard of this "custom". Let me explain. The wife and Sis and I are going to be renting a new place that just luckily happens to be almost directly across the street from our Surin home. We've been looking for a shop for about a year or so now in Surin to rent, and open a combined restaurant, noodle shop, covenience store. The place across from us diagonally has been something sort of like this all along. Ours will just be a higher end place with more choices and wares. The people that were renting and running it before finally moved out, as they had money problems because the wife of the couple was taking their income and spending it on all sorts of stuff without telling the husband. They were 10 months behind on the rent. Hubby hadn't a clue about this. Once he found out he got very upset, he and the wife had a huge row, and he left, taking the kids with him to his Mom's place in her village, leaving the wife to deal with the creditors. She closed shop within a couple weeks and went up to the village herself and reconciled with Hubby. (The whole thing looks to be an act I think myself.) They left owing much money, not only to the old guy who owns the house/shop that was renting it to them, but to many people in the neighborhood who were stupid enough to lend this cow their hard earned money. So we are now the new renters of this space, which includes a three bedroom, two story house, two hong nams, and the shop area out front, which is "open-air" and quite large. All for only 2,500 baht a month. The house is nice and big. We'll be renting the upstairs bedrooms to nursing students we know who go to school a couple blocks away at the hospital. These rents will basically pay the monthly rent for us on the house and shop, thereby giving us the downstairs rooms for our use and the shop's storage, and giving us the shop area for free really. A win/win situation for us, and all even better as it is right across the street from our home, very convenient for my wife, and Sis, and for look sow (daughter) after school. The shop area is fenced and has these huge mango tress on the front two corners, plus two or three very old and tall coconut palms, plus there are a few other smaller trees shading the area. Also, and this is a major pain and problem for us, as we were supposed to move in and take possession by the 7th this month, a friend of the husband was living in the house, renting a bedroom upstairs. After everyone lit out and the shop was closed down, he has still stayed, and is still ensconced in his room. He'd promised the old man to leave by the 7th. (Thus giving him a week to find new lodgings.) The 7th passed and he was still there. He's argued his case with the old man who owns the house, saying, "I've paid my rent to the lady of the house. Not you. I rent from them. If you want me to leave the people I rented the room from need to tell me to leave, not you. I am staying until I find a new place to live." (The rent he had paid never went further than the woman's pocket, and is/was for only last month's room rent anyways.) This was not taken too kindly by the man who owns the house, a nice old guy, who had really let the rent slide for a long time, hasn't recieved a satang in ten months, as the woman always was promising to pay up soon, and giving him all these sob stories. Now he's pissed off. The police will be here either today or tomorrow to physically remove this poor guy from his room, and all his belongings. The old guy showed up the day before yesterday with some army guys and a camera to take pictures of the place, in case the guy decides to trash it or retaliate in some way later after he is removed. I've tried to get the owner to give the guy some more time to get another place, but because the guy basically told him to fuck off last week, the owner has now lost face, and is pissed off now at him. Not a good thing. And now the owner, being an old country Thai, being superstitious, and believing in good luck and bad luck, and ghosts and spirits, and all this sort of stuff, has stated he intends to have a house "opening" ceremony. To open the front of the house to let out the "bad luck" and the "bad spirits" he believes the house has now. This ceremony means................ cutting down every tree in front of the damned house, to give the bad luck and bad spirits room to leave the place, and no reason to stay, from what has been explained to me. The bad spirits, from what I understand, can live in the trees and cause bad luck. And clearing the trees can release them in the ceremony by the monks and make them go elsewhere. Now, needless to say, I'm not very fucking happy with this scenario and prospect. I've suggested alternative therapies as it were. A partial cutting of the trees. Maybe a few branches, and just the coconut trees. (The coconut trees are about three stories high, and the "fruit" could fall and cause damage, either to the house, or even maybe some customer's skull of a windy day.) So I don't mind as much the cutting down of the coconut trees, even though I love their look and stately majesty. But the Mango trees are gorgeous old shade trees, still bearing much free fruit, and are the largest and nicest trees in the neighborhood. I want them to stay. Has anyone else heard of, ran across, this "opening the house" custom, ceremony, superstition? I'd love to know about any alternative ceremonies that could maybe save these great trees. I'm not happy about these being cut down, and have said so. The Thais, my family included, don't seem to understand why I'm a bit upset with the thought of this. Anyone know something of this? Cent p.s. Also, there are these great willow trees you'll usually see lining the rice paddies along the paddy-dikes in the countryside up here in Isaan. Tall and thin, very flexible in the wind, whitish bark. The branches are the same as what we westerners call a "weeping willow" tree. I like these, and have noticed they grow very quickly from a sapling to around twenty feet or more tall within a couple years after they are planted. I wanted to line the property of my village house with these, but was told it is "bad luck" to do so. I was told these trees bring sadness into a home, and that they are NEVER planted inside the village, only out in the fields. There is some sort of a story/custom, folktale behind this superstition. If anyone knows what it is I would love to hear about it. Or to be directed to some web-site that has these folk-tales published, in English. Thanks guys, and ladies. Maybe Jasmine or GTG knows the story behind this superstition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovineye Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Cent, I would not be happy with this either. Maybe a monk can help you. They have many ceremonies involving trees. Blessing trees so spirits move in and hoping that keeps illegal log cutters from stealing the trees. Have seen that in the NW. HAve that ceremony and he would not dare cut the trees down. Also the opposite. A ceremony for trees that are inhabited by spirits that must be cut down or various reasons. Makes the spirits happy and they go to another tree without creating mischief. Sounds like what you need, without cutting the trees down. I see trees all over that are decorated with all sorts of ribbons, housesw, flower etc, usually where bad accidents happen (drunks hitting trees iwth cars or bkes). This is supposed to stop the trees from jumping in front of the vehicles. Here is my favorite spirit tree, in Chiang Mai. Spirit Tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Agreed a Monk could persuaded with a red envelope to preform a ceremony to rid the area of evil spirits. At worst one tree might have to scrificed to allow the proper Feng Shui energies to flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 most interesting subject about the trees, and i am afraid that one species that is considered bad luck around Surin may mean nothing special in another district or region of Issan. Trees are very potent symbols, or carry great symbolic value, and every locality may deal with them in their own idiosyncratic beliefs or propitiations. the idea being that the tree has a potential personality of its own, added to the possible character of local piis lodged in it, the problem is: people now repeat these superstitions without knowing where they come from and so you get this "tree is bad, must cut!" expedient. (Any chance you step out of the house at 4 am in the morning, howling at the moon, chanting vague syllabes, spitting at regular intervals around the trees, pretend exhaustion, do it every night for one week, and loudly, then tell the people the bad tree spirits have agreed to move to Si saket? : Anyway, i found that, it's about Chiang Mai/Chiang Rai, but definitely gives an idea tree lore is rich in Thailand: http://welcome-to.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/trees.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted November 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 Rovin, Got them down to only cutting two trees now. One coconut palm, and one mango. Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovineye Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 Sounds much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted November 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 All, Well,the trees are being cut down as we speak, or write, or whatever. This should have been the storyline for a Marx Brothers movie. If someone doesn't get killed doing this I'll be very surprised indeed. They are attempting to cut down a two and a half foot in diameter mango tree with, guess what, a frigging small electric circular saw, and a machete!! Oh my Christ! Meanwhile the yard is strewn with coconuts from the felled huge coconut palm tree, and people are just squatting around hacking away at the free fruit with their own machetes and eating the things on the spot. Timberrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!! Haven't they ever heard of chain saws here? Jeez, even a twelve inch bladed electric chain saw would be better than a fucking circular saw. I've never seen anything so comical, and stupid and dangerous at the same time, as this! :-) Where's Groucho when you really need him to run the show? Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2003 Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 Sounds like you need a video camera. Stupid stunts TV could give you a nice income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovineye Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 Cent, Hope no one got hurt in the comedy of errors. Had there been an injury, that would have been a true sign of mischief in the trees. For that reason more would need to be cut down. The carnage could go on for years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted December 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Rovin and All, Hahahahahaha! You should really see this! It's a riot laugh! The trees were infested, and I do mean infested, by those large red fire ants! The little fuckers are EVERYWHERE! Including in most of the pants of the people cutting down the trees and chopping them into manageable lengths. Hehe. Ever here the term "ants in your pants"? :-) Everyone is dancing about slapping themselves silly and contorting into almost impossible positions to get the ants off themselves. I almost hurt myself laughing so hard watching fat little Sis run around slapping herself, yelling "Mot mot mot! Eiyiiiieeeee! Mot mot mot!" (Mot=ants) Haven't laughed that hard in ages! :-) Truly slapstick comedy central here! Off to paint the back room of the house. Later guys. There's a story here when I get the chance soon! :-) Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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