Guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 "Uh...can you name this relocation firm." Relocations Asia-Pacific Ltd http://www.relocations.co.th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I agree that zoning of entertainment zones (and industrial sights, etc.) is a good idea. It is the details of this particular zoning plan the trouble me. A few of the details that I find troubling: 1. Bars and pubs outside of entertainment zones will only be allowed to operate for 3 hours - 9 pm until 12 midnight. I will admit there is confusion on this point, but this is what I read in The Nation, the Bangkok Post and heard on iTV (my Thai is good enough to follow what was being said, but I double checked with a native Thai speaker sitting next to me during the broadcast). 3 hours is, as the owner of AngelWitch put it, a death sentence. 2. Even if opening times are not affected and only closing hours are moved to midnight, this will still close many bars and put thousands of Thais out of work. 3. Put yourselves in the shoes of someone who invested money, sweat and tears over years to build up a business, only to have it destroyed by a hastily issued government edict. Think of the employees. It is unfair to the owners and employees of bars outside the zones. Usually with new zoning regulations existing operations are grand fathered in or allowed a reasonable transition period, such as two or three years. Here, the transition period is a scant three weeks. 4. "But the bars around lower Sukhumvit (incl NanaPlaza) and the small sois, are a bit of an eyesore. Not many Thais that I know will weep if these places go out of business." I think this is partially right. There are down-scale Thai venues that are worse. The Thais in my office hated the Soi 10 bars because they were out in the open for all to see, but seemed to tolerate NEP because it was off the main street. The venues on Ratchadipisek are even more prominent and it is obvious what they are all about, but they are packaged in Las Vegas glitz, which I guess makes them OK. And I am not sure Patpong looks much better than NEP. But if appearance is the issue, which it often is here, require a general cleaning up of appearances by enforcing existing health and sanitation laws. 5. "The government IMO needs to set more zones." Absolutely right. And NEP should be included in one of them. There are a few apartment buildings nearby, but they seem to carter mostly to farangs who live there because of NEP. NEP has been there for at least 12 years, and any residents complaining now are a bit like the people who buy homes next to airports and then insist on compensation or demand that the airport be moved because of the noise it makes. That is not sensible zoning. 6. NEP and the lower part of Sukhumvit is a de facto entertainment zone, and the law should take this into account. To do otherwise, is to create tremendous and unfair economic hardship on thousands of people, most of them Thai. 7. "In Bangkok nitetime entertainment was allowed to florish everywhere." True. Bangkok should have had zoning 50 years ago. It should have had a mass transit system 25 years ago. It is good that it is finally catching up, but in doing so, it should take into account the reality of the situation as it exists now. 8. "another thing that worries me, if the new law will lead to many lay-offs, is an increase in street crime. We already see this at the moment, just look at Thai news reports." This worries me too. It is not just the BGs, but taxi drivers, workers in local restaurants, and the police. I think I saw a report here about how the BGs in one bar are getting predatory - not surprising. And I have noticed the police are getting more aggressive in traffic enforcement (a good way to supplement their income), but I can't honestly say yet whether there is a connection. 9. "Don't think that the early closing hours will have much effect on tourism, but an increase in petty crimes surely will" Maybe right. I think this depends on what happens in Pattaya and Phuket. Will see. 10. "The pubs on Thonglor will enter difficult times for sure if allowed to open only a few hours." This is the irony. In the name of the new morality, the new, interesting non-sex oriented bars will be shuttered while the more prominent sex venues will be protected. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 ?am looking for something to tell me that you and Showtime are right, but, with all due respect, all I see are alot of cliches about moving dairy products. I don't see anything that explains how a bar can survive operating 3 hours a night.? I didn?t say it wouldn?t affect the bars in Nana, of course it would. As for Top Cat he didn?t say that either ?I'm not sure I like many of the changes. And I am not making light of the plight of many of my friends whose ambitions may be seriously sidelined by these changes. But, the times they are a changin' and we must adapt.? That was his comment. I can?t speak for him, but it sure sounds like he thinks it will affect Nana bars as well. He is involved with one, so he should know. My interpretation... If you want to make money, other than a bar in Nana, their still is hope. What I am saying and this seem to be the basis of Stickman?s article this week as well. If you think it will hurt Thailand economy by closing at midnight, it won?t. I would venture to say, tourism will increase. As for the Thai economy, it?s all about exports and with the FTA being negotiated with the USA it should increase dramatically even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I´m also not so sure wether Bangkok needs additional Luxury Hotels, there´s not exactly a lack of them. Good point. About three months I heard someone from Starwood properties (owner of the Sheraton) speak. He said occupancy rates in the 5 star hotels are low in Bangkok, and the most profitable hotels with the highest occupancy rates are the 3 and 4 star hotels. The 3 and 4 star hotels in the lower part of Sukhumvit do particularly well. I wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I went to their site. When I mentioned that the rental market for serviced apartments is very soft, you indicated that ex-pats are renting large homes. On the Relocations Asia-Pacific Ltd site, however, three out of the four exemplar properties listed for Sukhumvit and the Silom/Sathorn properties were apartments. This is certainly consistent with my experience that most ex-pats live in serviced apartments when they first move here. And since the market for serviced apartments is very soft, what does that tell us about new ex-pats moving into the Sukhumvit area? One other thing - I am pretty sure I recognized a few of the properties. The rents listed on the site are well above market. In brief, they are acting as brokers, and brokers will always tell prospective buyers or renters that the market is tight. But at an American Chamber of Commerce meeting, with other professionals who have been here for years, you will get a completely different, and more candid, appraisal of the market. It's soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 It goes beyond NEP bars. The rule applies to all pubs and clubs in the lower Sukhumvit area. Aren't those pubs and clubs the biggest draw to that area of town? And if they are gone, won't that affect neighboring businesses? Isn't this the point? As to future plans, futuristic shopping malls and fashions shows.... Seems a bit speculative and stretched to me. "As for the Thai economy, it?s all about exports and with the FTA being negotiated with the USA..." True about the exports, and we will see about the FTA (I hope one is negotiated and I am certainly rooting for it, but I am not betting on it.) But I am talking about the Sukhumvit area, not about Thailand in general, and the economy in the Sukhumvit area is not based on exports, but tourism...tourists drawn to local entertainment venues that will cease to exist if the new rules are enforced as advertised. Even your earlier post mentioned a franchise in the Sukhumvit area. I think that is the point here - what will happen in the lower part of Sukhumvit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 It goes beyond NEP bars. The rule applies to all pubs and clubs in the lower Sukhumvit area. And to ALL the bars/clubs in the entire country. The devastation in smaller towns will be very obvious. Will this mean that I can only get a drink at a bar in ChiangRai or Pai or Korat betwenn 9pm and midnight??? If so, this law will not last. The people, the Thai people will laugh this gov't out of office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 And there we have it. If enough people do not like it, it will change. If they do like it, I'm too old to crusade to change them and will adapt myself accordingly. Much as I like the stuff, I'm not just "here for the beer" anyway. This too shall pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 " When I mentioned that the rental market for serviced apartments is very soft, you indicated that ex-pats are renting large homes. On the Relocations Asia-Pacific Ltd site, however, three out of the four exemplar properties listed for Sukhumvit and the Silom/Sathorn properties were apartments. " I have no desire to promote this firm but as you are stating a point. I feel I must point out my understanding, if It seems like promotion, I apologize. .... I understand they are very discrete on their inventory. They would never broadcast their extensive listings on the net so brokers could pick it off. That?s why they don't co-broke. They are able to do this as they have contracts with the Muti-national firms. Most firms require they attend their orientation and several make it a requirement that any house selected is with them. Nitcha Thani area is their client type. "The rule applies to all pubs and clubs in the lower Sukhumvit area. Aren't those pubs and clubs the biggest draw to that area of town? And if they are gone, won't that affect neighboring businesses? Isn't this the point?" I really don't feel it will and like I said I'm betting on it. Feeling confident but with trepidation. Is that a good sign? :-) I'm a Amcham member as well. Are you going to the event tomorrow? PM me if you like and we'll talk about Sukhumvit. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 And of course, that's NOT me you're responding to. That's someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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