Pattaya - Bank Account Recommendations

[Guest]

Pattaya 127, you wouldn't have an email for Richard would you?

Thanks!

[pattaya127]

no (e-mail). sorry, he does not have one.

[Guest]

A few points:

1. You can buy a condo on any visa. I would not focus on the visa, there are other, bigger, issues to worry about. There may be some confusion here because if you buy a condo for more than 8 million baht from the developer and meet certain other requirements, you may be entitled to a Permanent residency visa under a BOI program. To avoid confusing matters, I will leave it at that since there are bigger threshold issues you need to look at.

2. Make sure the building is a registered juristic condominium. If it is not, you have problems. A registered juristic condominium is considered in many respects a separate legal entity the same way a private limited company (similar to a corporation in the U.S.) is considered a separate legal entity. Find out how the condominium is governed and what the dues are.

3. You need to be very careful about title. This is not a foreigner vs. Thai issue; it is a problem common to all property transactions in Thailand, but it is particularly difficult for foreigners because they cannot read Thai. If handed an official looking (Garuda stamped) Thai language document and told it’s the title document, would you know? Most Thais cannot tell, and if you cannot read Thai, you won't even know where to begin.

4. You not only need to make sure your “seller” actually owns the property, but you also need to make sure there are no mortgages against the condominium. You need to know what is and is not subject to equitable servitudes, what is part of the common area and what is part of your condominium. You need someone who understands what the issues are when doing a land transaction in Thailand.

5. If it is not obvious already, you need an honest and competent English speaking professional to guide you through the transaction. Don’t rely on bar stool wisdom. Rip-Offs are common. Good luck.

 

2.

[Guest]

Given the advice of seeking out honest english speaking professional,(who knows what they are doing with respect to foreigner purchasing a condo), - does anyone have a recomendation of a suitable lawyer\legal firm etc.

Thanks,

PP

[Guest]

Who asked to see your non-immigrant visa? Since you were dealing with the Land Department in Pattaya, I assume it was a Land Department official in Pattaya. Is that right? Did they say why they asked?

Your suggestion about getting a copy of the title deed is a good one, but I did not know that the Land Department officials in Pattaya were so helpful that they would give advice to Farangs. I assume the advice is limited to whether the copy corresponds to the original on file? Even providing that much advice would make them more helpful to Farangs than probably any other Land Department office in Thailand (or the US for that matter.) I would still want more advice on other matters that a Land Department official could never really address, such as the status of the condominium jurisitic person, easements, mortgages, etc., if I was spending serious money.

There are taxes on the official sales contract, a Thai language document. The parties negotiate the price, so I am not sure how the Land Department can tell you the amount of taxes before a price is set. In transactions with Farangs, it is common to have a more extensive English language sale purchase agreement, but the official transaction document is a relatively short Thai form document. As you might imagine, the English language sales purchase agreement is usually more extensive.

I am sure the tax angles, avoidance and otherwise, are immediately apparent to some of you.

One final comment, if I was an individual purchaser of a condo in a transaction where I am allowed to take title (in condos, generally the case), I don't know why I would give a power of attorney to a lawyer. I would want advice from a lawyer and I would want a lawyer to review the documents, but I would expect title to be registered directly in my name.

[ July 10, 2001: Message edited by: RogerRabbit ]

[Guest]

Sorry if my info was wrong but I was asked for a non imm visa when I purchased my place, same as when I bought my car.

If you're worried about ownership ask the seller for a copy of the deeds (both sides) and a copy of their ID and take these down to the land registry office and they'll check them with their current official copy.

If the seller isn't a rip off then there'll be no prblems with them handing over photocopies.

It is possible to do the transfers yourself down at the land registry office or give a lawyer power of attorney for Baht7,000.

Make sure you agree who is going to pay the taxes, they can be steep. Again the land office will be able to tell you how much.

[Guest]

You may also find it helpful to check out William Pinset's excellent website:

www.phuketland.com

Although the listed properties are specific to Phuket, there is good general information about the processes and pitfalls involved in purchasing real estate in Thailand.

[robaus]

I bought a condo on a tourist visa also. Never had any problems.

Besides shopping and asking around, revisit the condo at night time (spend a night there if poss) to see what the noise levels are like. Can make a difference when neighbouring bars start up at night.

[Guest]

I wasn't in the country when my condo was purchased so I had to do it through a lawyer. It was he that wanted to see my non imm visa and that's also why I used Power of Attorney. The deeds are in my name but the lawyer signed them.

Yes the Land Office will tell you whether the copy corresponds with the original deed on file and whether it is in the name of the person you are buying it from.

Re the taxes. They are based on the value of the condo that is registered with the Land Office and they will therefore be able to tell you what they will be. The official sales contract is issued by the Land Office and will have their valuation on it, irrespective of the price you have agreed with the seller.

Also the seller should pay the taxes unless you agree that you will pay them.

The Land Office fixing the tax is I guess to stop avoidence etc. It also leads to the interesting case where you have agreed a price for the condo which is more than the valuation of the Land Office.

You pay less tax in this case.

If you are paying less for the condo than registered at the Land Office, you pay more tax than the sale value would dictate.

There's one other thing. If you haven't owned the condo for more than 2 years before you sell it you also have to pay VAT.

Remember any document / contract that you have written in English is worth absolutely nothing in a Court of Law in Thailand!!

And yes, the Land Department official in Pattaya was extremely helpful, just be a little patient as their understanding of English might only be equal to your understanding of Thai.

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by themayorofpattaya:

Yes the Land Office will tell you whether the copy corresponds with the original deed on file and whether it is in the name of the person you are buying it from.

Re the taxes. They are based on the value of the condo that is registered with the Land Office and they will therefore be able to tell you what they will be. The official sales contract is issued by the Land Office and will have their valuation on it, irrespective of the price you have agreed with the seller.

Also the seller should pay the taxes unless you agree that you will pay them.

If you are paying less for the condo than registered at the Land Office, you pay more tax than the sale value would dictate.

Remember any document / contract that you have written in English is worth absolutely nothing in a Court of Law in Thailand!!

---

You are right about the seller being responsible for taxes unless the contract provides otherwise. Your tax information, however, is not correct. Transfer fees will be based on assessed value, but not taxes. This is important because liability for the withholding obligation for taxes under the Revenue Code is joint and several.

The Thai language land sales contract registered with the Land Office is not based on the assessed value irrespective of the negotiated price.

It is good to hear that the Pattaya Land office is Farang friendly, but if they were the source of the information in your post, I suspect they may be a source of misinformation. Or perhaps something got lost in the translation, which is pretty easy to happen and quite understandable if you are not familiar with Thai property law, you don’t speak or read Thai or the official’s English is limited. There are also a host of other issues you need to worry about, particularly charges against the juristic condo and mortgages against the condo unit itself. I would not want to pay a couple of million baht for a condo only to find out that the condo is subject to a five million baht mortgage from a local bank, that that is a very common problem these days in debt-laden Thailand. If it was my money, I would not rely on solely on a "friendly" bureaucrat, but we all have to make and live with our own decisions about how we spend our money and how much risk we are willing to tolerate.

One final comment to clear up a common misconception: English language contracts are binding and enforceable for almost all commercial matters. The only real exception is contracts or company documents that must be registered with the Thai government, such as land sales contracts or a company’s AOA, and those must be in the Thai language. Three quick tips for ordinary commercial contracts: First, if you want the English contract to be binding, make sure that you don’t sign a Thai “translation.” Second, include a clause that states that if the contract is translated into any other language for any purpose, the English language version is binding and controlling. Third, insert a clause providing for arbitration of disputes, and provide that the arbitration will be conducted in the English language.

Of course, if you investing real money, you should be looking beyond this board for real advice.

[ July 11, 2001: Message edited by: RogerRabbit ]