ABCinBK Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 lopburi, I found some info. on updated land ownership in Thailand for Thai spouses of foriengers. You are right. If the foreigners signs off on a letter of release, it appears she can own all the land she wants. However, before the 1999 change, that wan't the case. Back then, there was always confusion between if she could own just a very small amount of land (a quarter rai or so I think) or none at all. But things changed after 1999, at least in written law. Though enforcement may have lagged. In the USA at least, there is no requirement to change last names after marriage. I checked on that in my State, though this may vary by State too. Having never legally even married in LOS, I am now wondering if the Thai requirement to register the marriage even applies to us. ABC "1. Thai Land Law: Under Sec. 86 of the Thai Land Law, a foreigner may own land in Thailand only if permitted by treaty. In fact, Thailand does not have a treaty with any country permitting foreigners from that country to own land. Therefore, foreigners are effectively prohibited from owning land in Thailand. Under Sec. 97 of the Land Law, the definition of a foreigner includes Thai registered companies or partnerships in which more than 49% of the capital is owned by foreigners or of which more than half the shareholders or partners are foreigners. As a practical matter, it is often difficult for a Thai company with foreigners having substantial minority ownership (e.g., 51% Thai, 49% foreign) to acquire land in Thailand. The policies of Land Offices vary throughout Thailand, but often they require that Thais own at least 60% or 70% of a company in order to register land ownership. Under former Land Office policy, Thai nationals who married foreigners were prohibited from ownership of land in Thailand. This prohibition was based on principles of community property law and a general presumption that the Thai spouse was holding the land for the benefit of the foreigner. However, under current Land Office policy the Thai spouse can own land in Thailand, provided that the foreign spouse signs a letter declaring the property to be the separate property of the Thai spouse and waiving any interest in the property. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 Having never legally even married in LOS, I am now wondering if the Thai requirement to register the marriage even applies to us I don't believe that there is any Thai requirement to register any marriage (most here aren't). My point was that many of us are acting on old information when we try to avoid marriage here "because the wife will not have land ownership rights".I do see advantage of registration/name change for travel and children. You have the reason you don't want others to know she has a high income husband but don't believe most have this concern as a priority. Was not trying to say you are wrong; just that the old 'land ownership' concern was in the past. I do suspect that if any children are ever registered for Thai citizenship the authorities will want her to change her name to yours on Thai documents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovineye Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 The land owning restrictions are a major reason GF and I are not married. Until very recently she thought she would not be able to buy land. Now she is sure she can, but still wouldn't want to marry. The reason is that she thinks they might change the laws again after we married and registered. Poof, one day she would not be able to buy land again. Hard to argue against that! Could easily happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 Poof, one day she would not be able to buy land again But then she could divorce you and have your land and hers both. Or haven't you told her that? :: I really don't see this changing as it never was a law, just the easy way out for those in government to deal with an issue by avoiding it. Now they have a way to deal with it (signed understanding foreigner has no claim). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCinBK Posted May 5, 2003 Report Share Posted May 5, 2003 lopburi, While privacy is an issue, it was the land ownership and possible hindership to business ownership/control that was paramount in the decision. When it comes to any child's citizenship, the American citizenship will require that I prove he is the child of an American. As the marriage is registered in the States, that will be covered. There is no requirement for the wife and husband to have the same last name, as long as there is a legal marriage certificate registered in the country where we married. This is of coarse assuming that my wife is not either a full citizen at the time. I do believe a permanent resident who has her child in the USA also means the child gets USA citizenship, but I'm not sure of this. The Thai government won't be interested in my citizenship, and I don't have to show I'm married to her, as she is the Thai national in this situation. In all reality, I doubt any of the unmarried Thai women, who are Thai nationals, and whose child is born in Thailand, would have the Thai government deny their child citizenship. The plan is for for her to be in Thailand when she has a child, and this is not for some time. I looked into this when the new laws concerning land ownership was still vague. This combined with possible restrictions to her, and the fact we were only planning on marrying in a Western country, made it a no loss vs. possible loss situation, when considering wether to bother marrying and registering any marriage in LOS. I did think about it, and I guess there is possible immigration or visa advantages I've given up. I understand if I am registered as her husband in LOS, I would qualify for a 1 year extension on my visa. But then I'm not planning on being in LOS long-term for quite a while, and even in retirement I'm not completely sure. From what I now know, you are right on no restrictions on the land ownership for Thais married to foreigners, under the new law. I was never able to verify if there was any restrictions on "amount" of land, as I never saw the actual government laws, but just interepretations. However, from everything I've found out there, it does appear that with the foreign spouse signing a release, the Thai spouse is apparently free and clear in all she wants and is able to buy in land and property. Now this goes to how many men are comfortable with their wife owning all the family land and property (with the exception of condos and homes on long term leases), if they chose to live in LOS? ABC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCinBK Posted May 5, 2003 Report Share Posted May 5, 2003 rovineye, I was thinking the same thing, but didn't post it, as that could bring up a whole new debate. In any case, at this point, there seems very little downside to just not registering the marriage. I am saying that as someone that is not living in LOS and have no plans to living in LOS long-term for quite a while. ABC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2003 Report Share Posted May 5, 2003 Says ABCinBK: When it comes to any child's citizenship, the American citizenship will require that I prove he is the child of an American. As the marriage is registered in the States, that will be covered. There is no requirement for the wife and husband to have the same last name, as long as there is a legal marriage certificate registered in the country where we married. This is of coarse assuming that my wife is not either a full citizen at the time. I do believe a permanent resident who has her child in the USA also means the child gets USA citizenship, but I'm not sure of this. Any child born in the US qualifies for citizenship -- even if the mother is an illegal. This is the source of much controversy and debate in the US but that's off-topic here. The child born abroad of a US father and non-US mother qualifies for citizenship if the parents are legally married at the time of birth. The child also qualifies if the parents are not married, but only after proving the veracity of the relationship with the mother, etc., to the satisfaction of the consular officer who gets the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2003 Report Share Posted May 5, 2003 While privacy is an issue, it was the land ownership and possible hindership to business ownership/control that was paramount in the decision. There is an underlying assumption in your position that not registering a marriage in Thailand means that you are not legally married as far as Thailand is concerned. I agree that *in practice* not registering a marriage in Thailand would allow you to "hide" the fact that your wife is married to a foreigner -- but I'd be pretty surprised to find out that Thailand doesn't actually recognize the legality of a marriage performed outside of Thailand even without registering it at an amphur in Thailand. So technically I'd think that just the fact of being legally married still exposes you to the problems you are trying to avoid by not registering the marriage at a Thai amphur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabii Posted May 5, 2003 Report Share Posted May 5, 2003 Kh, You are correct, Thailand recognizes marriages that are entered into in, and recognized by, other countries. I have a good Thai woman who came to the US 30+ years ago as a fiancee. She married, divorced, re-married, and divorced again. Last year she decided to make her first visit home since she left. She is a US Permanent Resident, and her Thai ID and passport were long since expired. In order to get a new Thai passport, the Thai embassy in Washington made her file a series of name-change applications tracing her marital history before they would give her a new passport. Regards, JEff Says KhMarried: There is an underlying assumption in your position that not registering a marriage in Thailand means that you are not legally married as far as Thailand is concerned. I agree that *in practice* not registering a marriage in Thailand would allow you to "hide" the fact that your wife is married to a foreigner -- but I'd be pretty surprised to find out that Thailand doesn't actually recognize the legality of a marriage performed outside of Thailand even without registering it at an amphur in Thailand. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamock Chokaprret Posted May 10, 2003 Report Share Posted May 10, 2003 I did think about it, and I guess there is possible immigration or visa advantages I've given up. I understand if I am registered as her husband in LOS, I would qualify for a 1 year extension on my visa. But then I'm not planning on being in LOS long-term for quite a while, and even in retirement I'm not completely sure. I'm opening the question up to anyone who's knowledgeable on this but I believe it may be a common misperception that the marriage must be registered in Thailand to receive the O visa. I just did a visa run outside Thailand and documented the visa requirements with our marriage license obtained in the US, along with her passport containing the US visa and entry stamps. Again the question is, does the marriage have to be registered in Thailand to qualify for the O visa extension? Why would they grant a 3 month visa in an overseas embassy on a US marriage if the same standard didn't hold in Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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