Sex Tourism

[Guest]

Smaller bars may not even keep books. When I had a bar in Patong Beach, I retained the tax people for 1,000 Baht monthly and they did whatever needed to be done. Never had a problem. :)

[sayjann]

i am offended by this article........ :onfire:

 

to say that older single Men (like myself) only go for the Women and Bars.......

what utter tosh.

 

the only reason i go is because i like sitting on a plane for 12 Hours......

 

but seriously though i hope the economy continues to prosper on the Island.

the People need help and will need help for quite a while.

[Guest]

Essentially true, except that 6% is the low end of the estimates, which range from 6-9%, and those figures only cover money spent on hotels, tours and other "legitimate" operations rather than money spent in nighttime venues.

 

Now think of all of the guys that spend around a thousand baht a night on a hotel room but several times that amount in the bars. There aren't very many other countries in the world where you will find these sorts of spending habits among tourists.

 

Thailand does have some family tourism, but the TAT's own statistics show that male tourists often outnumber female tourists almost 2 to 1 from more developed economies such as Northern Europe, Japan and the US. And this from a government that is notorious for doctoring figures to present a clean image of Thailand.

 

Of course we are only talking about Farang oriented tourism. P4p is even bigger among Asian tourists. And then there is the biggest market of all - Thailand's domestic market.

 

Now consider who the industry employs. The p4p industry is not employing young men and woman who would otherwise be commanding high salaries as doctors, lawyers, accountants, bankers, and IT specialists. The people it employs would probably otherwise be earning about 100 Baht a day if they were not in the industry. Because of the industry, a large part of the population who would otherwise be at poverty level can live, by Thai standards, relatively affluent lives. Hard to afford the latest mobile telephone or buy your family a pick-up truck when you make 100 Baht a day.

 

What about the rest of the Thai economy? About 55-60% of the population works in the agricultural sector (but that doesn't mean they aren't helped by family members in the industry), but 2/3 of the GDP is based on exports. Indeed, it was export growth that has led to Thailand's GDP growth over the least few years:

Export growth accounted for all of total growth in gross domestic product in 2002, and two-thirds of it in 2003.

Source As the author of this article correctly observes, Thailand is not prospering because of government?s attempts to raise incomes and stimulate entrepreneurship under schemes like Otop, and develop competitiveness in export areas like fashion and Thai restaurants. It does not have 6-per-cent growth because Yasothon housewives are making more baskets, and exports of tom yam kung are soaring. And government led attempts to change the composition of tourism have been equally ineffective.

 

Without the industry in Pattaya, NEP and Patong, average household incomes in Yasothon would drop precipitously no matter how hard its housewive worked making baskets. This is an unspoken truth about the Thai economy.

[Guest]

Yeah, some even say the underground economy is equal if not double that of the above ground economy. That puts a different slant on everything.

[Guest]

Minimum wage in BKK is 180 baht a day. Not 100. And very few make that little.

 

>>>>>Now think of all of the guys that spend around a thousand baht a night on a hotel room but several times that amount in the bars. There aren't very many other countries in the world where you will find these sorts of spending habits among tourists.<<<

 

This whole report is full of holes.

 

HT

[Guest]

>>>>>Yeah, some even say the underground economy is equal if not double that of the above ground economy. That puts a different slant on everything.<<<<<<

 

Internally, that might be true, but does not directly translate to the Thai GNP, and the figures. And certainly not all directly translated to the sex industry.

 

While maybe one half of what I spend on sanuk there, is unrecordable, I also spend other 75% of total dollars spent, on recordable purchases. Thailand is a country of factories and major industry. Sex tourism makes up a very small part of the total picture.

 

HT

[samak]

sex industry is just a fraction of the whole underground/black economy! in addition there is the drug industry, the illegal lottery and gambling industry to name just the major ones. many companies fabricates accounts and just a part of their revenues are recorded. and then you have a huge amount of small enterprises like the foodstalls next door, the small shops in the markets etc. etc. huge majority do not pay any tax on their revenues and are not recorded for the official GNP. in addition you have a lot of black labour, people with second jobs, illegal aliens from neighbour contries...all not recorded and therefore not in the GNP!

[Guest]

Minimum wage in BKK is 180 baht a day. Not 100. And very few make that little.

Very few of the BGs would be in Bangkok if there wasn't a p4p scene. Further, the minimum wage is lower outside of Bangkok and workers outside of Bangkok working in agriculture or for local companies often get paid less than minimum wage.

 

But for the sake of argument only, let's accept your assumption that BGs could readily make Baht 180 a day elsewhere (working in rice fields in Issan I guess). What they make in the bars is still at least several times that amount. Let's run through the numbers a bit:

 

I will pick Hollywood since it is a third (less desiriable) floor NEP bar and I happen to know a BG there who is pretty reliable about providing salary information. Hollywood pays BGs 10,000 Baht amonth, but after cuts for showing up late, let's reduce that amount to 8,000 Baht. I think 12 or 14 offs are required, but let's assume our hypothetical BG only reaches the bare minimum - I know plenty of BGs that do 2 or 3 rounds a night - and assume our hypothetical average BG only gets paid an average of 1,000 Baht from customers for services performed (the real number is probably somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000). When you factor in multiple rounds and Nana disco, I am sure the real average is several times higher, but let's go with these unrealistically low numbers anyway: they add another 12,000 Baht to her monthly income. And she gets 40 Baht per lady drink, and starting again with unrealistically low numbers, let's assume she only gets 2 lady drinks a night, and that she does this on only 25 nights: (2 x 25) x 40 = 2,000, and that she gets no tips. (I am seeing plenty of guys hand girls 100 Baht tips these days for a few drinks and a fondle.) All of these numbers are unrealistically low, but's let use them for now anyway.

 

Our poor performing BG ismaking 22,000 Baht a month. But if she was making 180 Baht a day working outside the bar if the industry was closed, and working 30 days - unrealistically high numbers, but let's use them anyway - she is making 5,400 Baht a month. In other words, even when you use unrealsticially high assumptions for non bar work and unrealistically low assumptions for bar work, our hypothetical BG is still making more than 4 times more working in the bar. The real spread is almost certainly much much larger.

 

And of course this ignores all of the other contributions to the Thai economy. The 20,000 Baht remittances from her tee ruk back in Germany or the US. The flights to Phuket or Koh Samui with her boyfiend of the week: I always see several such couples on every flight I make to Koh Samui or Phuket. Or the higher paying Japanese scene.

 

Samak is right that Thailand's economy is predominantly industrial and export oriented. But that sector employs a relatively small number of people. And it often requires at least a HS education (something BGs often don't have) and a level focus and diligence I don't find in many BGs. Even then, industrial workers generally make what: 8,000 - 12,000 Baht a month? Even our poor performing BG is making twice that amount.

 

Within the service sector, tourims predominates in Thailand. And within the tourism sector the p4p aspect is undeniably significant. It is not only important in terms of its contribution to the GDP (grossly and intentionally underestimated for reasons of "face"), but also important in terms of the signicant income boost it provides to what would otherwise be the lowest earning group in Thailand. And even the conservative estimates of the number of people providing p4p - not counting the anciliary waitresses, bouncers, barmen, taxi drivers, security - is very large.

 

And then, you also have to stop and ask yourself: would Thailand attract the number of tourists it gets now if there was no nightlife?

[Guest]

While maybe one half of what I spend on sanuk there, is unrecordable, I also spend other 75% of total dollars spent, on recordable purchases

Then you are an exception - or did you intentionally use the term "recordable" rather than "recorded"? I am sure the charges in NEP bars could be recorded for tax purposes; I am also sure, few, if any, are.

 

There is an easy way to test this for anyone who has ever been in Bankok: compare a receipt issued by a restaurant in, say, Emporium, to what you get in bar in NEP. Or even the upscape bars across the street from Emporium on Soi 33. Notice a difference. Now take it a step further to the primairy service providers: has anyone here ever had a BG issue a receipt for "services rendered" ?

 

If you stay in 5 star hotels, what you are saying may be right. But the vast majority of hotels here are 2 and 3 star hotels. The 2 and 3 star hotels on Sukhumvit consistently have the highest occupancy rates and provide the highest return on capital (this from the Country Manager of Starwood properties, a company that operates much more expensive hotels). Why is this and just what kind of people stay in those 2 and 3 star hotels on Sukhumvit?

 

Let's not fool ourselves.

[elef]

Hi,

 

"But for the sake of argument only, let's accept your assumption that BGs could readily make Baht 180 a day elsewhere (working in rice fields in Issan I guess)."

 

A normal salary for working in rice fields in Isaan is 100 baht. I had the "pleasure" of sitting beside a danish man in airplane last time who owns a farm in Isaan. He told me he just paid married couples 4000 baht/month.

 

elef