Suan Sawan

[gobbledonk]

Hi All,

 

I know that attempts to 'Anglicise' Thai phrases are fraught with peril, but I'd be interested to hear your own translations of 'Garden Paradise' in Thai. The garden itself is quite beautiful, although I suspect a Balinese phrase may have been more apt:

Suan Sawan

 

Cheers,

 

Artie

[Guest]

That brings up an interesting question.

 

They translate sawan as [color:"red"]paradise[/color]. I always thought of it as [color:"red"]heaven[/color]. There is a fine distinction between the two, rooted in Christian theology. While both are considered desirable places, paradise implies physical existence (presumably on Earth), whereas heaven refers to spiritual existence at some undefined place, generally speaking up in the sky.

 

Does anyone know how the word sawan (no doubt also rooted in theology) relate to the concepts of paradise and heaven that I described?

[Nervous_Dog]

Art, one time when you get here we'll go on a tour of gardens, you seem to have the same facination with greenery I doo

 

DOOG

[Flashermac]

SAWAN comes from Pali or Sanskrit (forget which), savarga if written literally. Thus presumably it is a Hindu concept. The English-Thai dictionaries generally use heaven and paradise without distinction.

[gobbledonk]

The English-Thai dictionaries generally use heaven and paradise without distinction.

 

For the sake of my ignorance, what is the Buddhist rendition of 'heaven' ? Surely 'enlightenment' and the divorce from our failings in this life is as good as it gets ?

[Flashermac]

A major oversimplification and one that would probably p*ss off a lot of believers, but here it goes ..

 

As Thais understand Buddhism, the idea is that there are different levels from existence. You will go to one after your current life, depending on how good or bad you were. You might merit a higher level ... sort of a paradise. But you might go to a hell like level. However, this is not permanent. You remain in hell until you have "served your time". Then you will be reborn in the flesh again. Also, you will not remain in paradise after you have used up the merit you made. You will be reborn again. This cycle goes on and on.

 

The Buddha's teaching was that one should seek to break this cycle ... the wheel of life ... by rejecting material things and realising how impermanent they are. Nothing is permanent and all pleasure is fleeting. One should try to reach Nirvana (Nipana in Pali), a state of being but not desiring, existing but not returning to be reborn. For most Thais, that is too hard ... and certainly not a lot of fun to do anyway. They just try to insure that they will be good enough not go to hell and will at least be reborn no worse off than they are now.

 

This helps account for the Thais' easy going attitude, in contrast to the west where most Christians are taught you only have one chance to make or break. Screw up and it is eternal damnation. Virtually the same thing with Muslims too.

[gobbledonk]

Thanks Flashermac - I definitely prefer the Buddhist vision, at least as you've translated it, to the Catholicism I had beaten into me as a child. The concept of living in a hell of our own making isnt difficult for Westerners to grasp - it could be a town like Buffalo, or Manchester, or Canberra, or ....... ::

[Flashermac]

Jesus kept talking about being "born again". The church insists this means being dunked in water and becoming a Christian. But who knows???