cunning linguists

[Guest]

I'm not entirely sure that the "Hat" in question is indeed the Southern Thai version of "chaihat"(beach).

I rather suspect it might be derived from Sanskrit "hatta" or Hindi "haat". Both translate as "market".

As you will know a large number of Thai words can be traced back to Sanskrit, Pali or even, in a few cases, Hindi. One good example for the latter is the Thai currency Baht, which is derived from Hindi baat, "weight" or "measure".

[Guest]

Interesting theory, Mr Scum (?). But I've just checked the Thai spelling of Haad as in Haad Yai and in Haad Noppharat, and it's the same.

You're right about the words of Pail/Sangskrit origin. I'm working in Bangladesh...desh meaning land/nation whatever. Same pathet Thai, or Aranyaprathet. Uttar, arun, there's heaps of links.

[Guest]

I have heard the theory that once upon a time the seafront extended up to the area of today's Hat Yai and thus the name - but that doesn't make much sense to me as that would have been at a time thousands of years before the area was settled by Thais and they would have never known about it.

The connection between Sanskrit/Pali and Thai is unrefutable. Most words in higher-level Thai can be traced back to either of the above.

Aranyaprathet course comes from Sanskrit Aranya-pradesha ("Forest-Land") and is but one example of hundreds of Thai town names of Sanskrit origin. They often have a very obvious Hindu connection, as for example Phitsanuloke - which is nothing but Vishnu-loka, "The world/place of Vishnu".

The very name Siam was derived from Sanskrit "shyama", meaning on one hand "dark", but it's also another name for the Hindu god Krishna. The name Isaan comes from Sanskrit Ishaana, which is another name for Shiva.

And to think most present-day Thais don't like Indians or India!

[Guest]

Hey, no one likes the French, doesn't stop us using their letters...

The theory about the sea being much further inland was also related to me, by a Thai, but I go along with your reasoning.

Now, can you see a linguistic link between farang and ferringhi???

[Boo Radley]

Whatever the origin of the name HAT YAI is, its spelling is หาดใหญ่, which translates literally as 'big beach'.

[ July 08, 2001: Message edited by: Boo Radley ]

[Guest]

Why is Haad Yai called Haad Yai???

It's nowhere near the bloody beach...

[Guest]

Here is another explanation. I tend to believe this one.

Way back 100-plus years ago, before Hat Yai ever existed, there was only the newly constructed railway junction. This junction was located near an enormous "mahaat" tree (artocarpus lakoocha) (ต้นมะหาด .

Supposedly when people would refer to this new junction, they would refer to the most obvious landmark which was the large "mahaat" tree.

As you may know, the Southern Thai dialect has a tendency to be very economical with multi-syllabic Thai words that refer to geographical location. In many cases the first syllable is dropped. Thus "krungthep" becomes "thep", Bangkok becomes "kok", and Satun becomes "tun".

So when referring to the railroad junction with the large "mahaat" tree "ton mahaat yai" ต้น มะหาดใหญ่ the locals would naturally have shortened it to "haat yai" (หาดใหญ่ .

As the junction became more important and the city developed around it, the name Hat Yai was adopted.

There is no longer any "mahaat" tree near the Hat Yai train station so none of this can be confirmed, but I think this offers the best explanation for the origin of the name of Hat Yai that I have heard so far.

On a side-note for any trivia buffs, one other peculiarity of Hat Yai is that it is the only city in Thailand that is larger than its provincial capital.

[Guest]

Originally posted by abbot thong:

"Now, can you see a linguistic link between farang and ferringhi?"

Absolutely. The "feringhi" is a corruption of Persian "farangi" or "firingi", meaning a Frank or Frenchman. It later came to be used for any Western foreigner, in India, as well as in Thailand (in modified form).

In India, also the Urdu word "angrez" is used, meaning Englishman.

The letter f in "farangi" makes it very obvious that it cannot be of Sanskrit/Pali origin, since there is no f in these languanges.

The old Tamil and Singhalese version of it, "parangi", was used to denote a Portuguese or someone who had been converted to Christianity by the Portuguese.

[ July 09, 2001: Message edited by: Scum_Baggio ]

[Guest]

Originally posted by Boo Radley:

"Whatever the origin of the name HAT YAI is, its spelling is หาดใหญ่, which translates literally as 'big beach'."

Sometimes words unknown to a people are made to fit words known to them.

A good example is the town name Takua Pa, which in its present form translates as "Forest of Lead", seemingly an allusion to the vast tin reserves the area used to hold.

In reality, Takua Pa is probably a corruption of Takkola ("Cardamom-Market"), a name given to the town by early Indian settlers. Around the 9th century AD, Takkola was at its prime as a regional trading centre.

The Thais of later times obviously didn't know what the name meant and changed it to something which made sense to them.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Sev:

"So when referring to the railroad junction with the large "mahaat" tree "ton mahaat yai" ต้น มะหาดใหญ่ the locals would naturally have shortened it to "haat yai" (หาดใหญ่ ."

Also a very good possibility. Any idea what the name of the tree means?

I think it's certainly Sanskrit-derived, the "maha" (great, illustrious) being a give-away. In my reckoning it the original name may have been "ton mahaatam", "Tree of Greatness" or "The Majectic Tree".

[ July 09, 2001: Message edited by: Scum_Baggio ]