Guest Posted July 17, 2001 Report Share Posted July 17, 2001 Originally posted by micsnee:"Or does the great Professor prefer to go by more Latin "skoom" (short oo)?" Hi Micsnee, I'm not sure what scum is in Latin, but with "skoom" you almost hit at the source of the word: "Scum" comes from Middle Dutch "schum", which I reckon would have been pronounced "skoom" (the oo being pronounced as u). Congrats! "On a vaguely related note, should one end Thai transcription of the name "Michael" with "LU" since just an "L" would result in "Maiken"?" I guess an l would be fine. There are many Thai words ending with an l, even if it happens to be pronunced as an n. Most, if not all, of these words seem to be of Sanskrit/Pali origin. Examples: (King) Bhumiphon is spelled Bhumipal (lit. "Earth-Keeper"). Phon-lamai = phal-lamai (phala is Skt. for fruit). The l in question was originally a la-sound, i.e. it had an inherent, reduced a following it. So in Sanskrit it's really Bhumipala, phala, etc. So, if HM the King can allow his name to be mispronounced, so can Mr. Michael a.k.a. Khun Maiken. Cheers, SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2001 Report Share Posted July 17, 2001 Hi Scum By Latin, I meant Latin pronounciation rather than English. But perhaps I could say Euro pronounciation as well. (Brits ain't Europeans!) So I guess it's decreed that I must wander through LOS as Maiken. Just another transformation, like French Michel, Italian Michele, German Michael (different pronounciation), Japanese Ma-i-ke-ru, and what!!! Sanskrit Mai-ke-la??? I'm not a katoey! Ciao! micsnee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BkkShaggy Posted July 17, 2001 Report Share Posted July 17, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Scum_Baggio: What is the meaning of the -kien in Ramakien? I know the spelling is different from the kien which means "to write". Could it be the Thai version of Sanskrit "gyana" (wisdom, knowledge)? That would be my interpretation at least. Sorry,I don't know what it comes from. According to Thai dictionary, "Kien" means fame, respectable. So Ramakien might mean " The Fame of Rama"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 18, 2001 Report Share Posted July 18, 2001 รามเกียรติ์ เกียรติ์ = repute I know very little about pali sanskrit But I believe the thai spelling especially all the rarer letters give the clue to the sanskrit word Have you read J.Marvin Brown From Ancient Thai to Modern Dialects in that book he gives charts that show how the letters correspond.This word is not Kien with a "k" but more like gien with a hard "g" most transliterations use "kh" for our "k" sound but "k" for the hard "g" or gor gai in thai. Also looks like it ends with a dt or dti in its original form, this letter has been silenced with a garung because it would create a word imposible for a thai to pronounce. "hall" youre question looks like its been answered already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 18, 2001 Report Share Posted July 18, 2001 BkkShaggy & Noo6, synthesizing both your replies I come to the conclusion that "kien" could also be from Sanskrit "kirti", meaning glory, praise, fame. I'm still puzzled a bit as I think "kirti" normally would be "kit" in Thai - as in the name of Queen Sirikit for example (Shri-Kirti in Sanskrit). OK, I know that sometimes Sanskrit words end up in different versions in Thai. See for example "dhana" (wealth), which on one hand can turn into "thon" (as in Thonburi, "City of Wealth"), on the other hand into "thana" as in "thanakan" (bank; lit. "wealth-maker"; Skt. dhana-kara). So I'm still scratching my head a bit, but I'll get there. Thanks very much for both your replies, SB. [ July 18, 2001: Message edited by: Scum_Baggio ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 18, 2001 Report Share Posted July 18, 2001 Originally posted by micsnee:"So I guess it's decreed that I must wander through LOS as Maiken. ... Sanskrit Mai-ke-la???" Hi Micsnee, I looked up "Michael" and it's supposed to be a Hebrew name, meaning "Who is God". In Sanskrit that would be "Kim-Deva", and in Thai pronounciation it should end up as "Gim-Thep" - quite a snappy little name, eh? "I'm not a katoey!" I believe you. I know somebody once wrote a whole thesis or a chapter in a book on the etymology of the word "katoey", and I hope I'll be able to lay my hands on it some time. Meanwhile we could ask those katoeys in that bar on the second floor of NEP ... Cheers, SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hall Posted July 18, 2001 Report Share Posted July 18, 2001 Noo, Answer it---more like a PH.D about it!! LOL. Cheers Hall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2001 Report Share Posted July 19, 2001 Originally posted by noo6:"Have you read J.Marvin Brown From Ancient Thai to Modern Dialects ..." Unfortunately not. As far as I know it was published way back in 1965. Any idea where to get a copy in Bangkok? Otherwise, I'll check with (the very well-stocked) Borders and Kinokuniya in Singapore next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elef Posted July 19, 2001 Report Share Posted July 19, 2001 Hi SB check here: http://www.thailine.com/lotus/linguist.htm regards elef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2001 Report Share Posted July 19, 2001 Thanks Elef! So White Lotus might have the book. The list is from 1998, but I guess there's still a good chance. Cheers, SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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