Guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 ROTFLMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brink15 Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 FB, I totally agree with you that xenophobia and racism are not just Thai things. Here in the states there is huge racism. Pretty starnge for an alleged melting pot. When I lived in LOS, I perceived the attitude among Thais as varied depending on their backround. In the area near where my wife comes from, near Cambodia, there is subtle xenophobia but not outright racism. People are fairly accepting, but are also hesitant until they get to know you. I can understand this given that it is a homogeneous society with not all that much contact with farang. My Thai friends, both in LOS and here in the states, who come from the upper stratus of THai society seem to be well adjusted to the West and have more of a world view. The Thais in Phuket, where I lived the longest (a little over 1 year out of my 2 years in LOS), were very jaded against farang. Again, I understand the reasoning. If your country is inundated with foreign travellers whose hygene leaves something to be desired and have no interest in your language or culture other than beaches and bars, I can understand some contempt. It ain't racism, its just being jaded to what they see daily. The lady who rented me my bungalo in Kata was probably about 70 years old and as jaded as they come. Everyday I would wander down to buy something from her shop. She would always ask the same thing, "Aow arai,farang!?!" This was said in a, what do YOU want, kind of tone. I started speaking to her in Thai. "Yai, kor nam keng noi, krup." after about a month of this I was surprised when one day I wandered in and she said, "Aow arai luek?" Pretty cool transformation. My point with my previous posts was that the folks on the Pantip board responding to that thread appear to be very much like Thais I met on Koh Phi Phi. As I said previously, these were the kids of wealthy Thais, spoiled and fairly ignorant. Their behavior was not directed solely at the farang working on the island, but more the Thai staff. The owner of the shop was treated as a lacky. Have you ever seen a Thai snap their fingers to get someones attention? Probably not as this is extremely rude. But it happened repeatedly. We would get a group of these folks about twice a month when our Thai-only liveaboard would stop by the island. I know one can not generalise about any people, but I also think there are certain cultural truths. For instance I could tell an American tourist from about 50m away just by dress and mannerisms. I could also tell from the first person I'd see, that the baot full of Singaporean tourists had arrived. Different cultures have different idiosyncrasies, hence the study of sociology. I don't know if this has turned into a huge ramble or if there is a point in here somewhere. I guess my point is that a certain attitude I have seen displayed time and time again, usually by the folks I just described on Koh Phi Phi irritates me. Then again sometimes I'm just irritable. [ May 22, 2001: Message edited by: Brink15 ] [ May 22, 2001: Message edited by: Brink15 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatbastard Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 Brink, Xenophobia and racial preferences exist in all societies, there is little point in isolating one example from one person. Living here I would have say there is less general racism that I have experienced in any other country. Re the Starbucks "story", I just Don't believe it !! Starbucks are now all comapny owned outlets although it started here as a Thai owned franchise (not individual shops) they were were brought out by Starbucks some 6 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 "The Thais in Phuket, where I lived the longest (a little over 1 year out of my 2 years in LOS), were very jaded against farang. Again, I understand the reasoning. If your country is inundated with foreign travellers whose hygene leaves something to be desired and have no interest in your language or culture other than beaches and bars, I can understand some contempt. It ain't racism, its just being jaded to what they see daily. Yeah I guess they become jaded at watching farangs forking out 150 Baht for a fried rice!!! Greedy Bastards, thats all I have to say about 99% of the Thai people in the tourist trade in Phuket...I have to go there every month and wish I didnt... [ May 22, 2001: Message edited by: Roger ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brink15 Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 DB, Very true. Phuket is not the cleanest place on the planet and foreigners do get taken advantage of, with jacked up prices. Phukets not even as bad as some places. The attitude on Koh Phi Phi is far worse. I tried telling a bungalo manager I would rent the place for four months if he cut me a good deal, even offered to pay up front. He said no you have to pay same same tourist, everyday. The incredible thing is that his place was almost never full, so he was turning away guaranteed money. And the sanitation on Phi Phi is non existant. I can't fault the Thais 100% for their opinions of foreigners though. I can't count the number of times I'd be out cruising in Patong w/ my buds, when we'd see some moron grab the ass of the woman selling satay or som tam. Kind of puts her off her idea of foreigners if we can't even tell the difference between a go-go dancer and a vendor. I wonder if these same guys grab ass at the bank. "Hey I'd like to cash these travellers checks. And by the way, you have nice tits." [ May 22, 2001: Message edited by: Brink15 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene1944 Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 Originally posted by Bangkok Phil: [QB]Hi Kong Kong I posted the original story for two reasons. Firstly it came from a reliable source and secondly, I hate Starbucks I will admit that the story is beginning to look paper thin. etc. I read a column on a back page of the Bangkok Post this morning about this same "incident". The author said there are two versions of this story floating around the internet (ie different colors of Volvo white vs silver) and the Starbucks Thailand is apparently not a real name. If anyone interested, I will type full story. the Bangkok Post columnist said that it had all the earmarkings of an Urban legend and I would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BkkShaggy Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Brink15: Their wealthy daddies paid for their diplomas at Thammasat and Chulalongkorn. I would go through the scuba course with them, basic physics and physiology. I mean basic, as in, any western high school kid could grasp the concept. This I know because I've taught hundreds of fairly stupid kids in the states who were all able to pass the simple tests. These little, Thai rich kids were as dumb as posts. And these were alleged graduates of Thailands highest centers for learning. Its no wonder that they take up the Taksin nationalistic cause. Has anyone ever explained to these folks that the Japanese bitch slapped them during world war II? I know, I know, Thai history books are not exactly reality based. I'm told that high schools (Mattayom 4-6) in Thailand have about 4 programs. One or a couple of them don't learn physic and science stuff becaue they are "Art" program where they learn more of English or other second launguages like French or German. So may be your students are graduates from the "Art" program. And of course, they know about Japanese in WWII . There are quite a few movies about Japanese invasion in Thailand where much hatred have been portrayed by the producers. May be it's not that much Japanese hatred you feel from the Thais, comparing to the one they feel towards farangs?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brink15 Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 Shaggy, In terms of the Thais point of view re: the Japanese, I've seen some of the movies, the one with Bird comes to mind. The movies generally portray a romanticised version of the events. As movies in general often do. The school books are a different story. My friend whose mom is an M.L. and went to school at the Chitralada Palace school, is very well educated and fairly worldly. We've had discussions on everything from, Thai history, the Chakri dynasty, Buddhism, to Thailands role in S.E.A.. According to her, the Thai history texts used in schools always portray Thailand in a good light. This undoubtedly goes back to the need to maintain face. The invasion by the Japanese and the deaths of hundreds of Thais is glossed over in favor of presenting the Thai government as strong. Realizing that the Japanese were powerful, they alligned themselves with a powerful ally. The deaths of thousands more Thais in Kanchanaburi is also portrayed a bit diferently than in the West. You won't find a whole lot of mention in Thai history books about how prime minister Pibulsongram (Pibul) was a devout facist and admirer of Hitler. What they focus on instead is that somehow the Thais decided the Japanese maybe weren't their buddies and they needed to kick them out. So the mighty Seree Chai resistance uprouted the Japanese. I mean it certainly had nothing to do with the fact that the Japanese were getting pounded at home and were simultaneously withdrawing from most of S.E.A. Remember the thing, above all, of which the Thais are most proud, is the fact they were never colonized. "Ekarat ja mai hai krai komkee" - "We will not allow our sovereignty to be violated" - this is one of the most important verses of the Thai national anthem, Plairng Chart Thai. My point is the Thais do not look realistically upon what happened to them during world war II. Above all there is a nationalistic pride that has been there far longer than Taksin. Unfortunately, as in any country nationalism combined with ingnorance often equals intollerance. Hence the snap to judgement exibited by the Pantip posters. I personally don't care, for the most part I like the Thai spirit. I'm just not a fan of a specific group of folks I've had the displeasure of dealing with in the past. Hell, the same attitude in the West pisses me off just as much. I guess there is a difference between passive ignorance, where the person doesn't know and doesn't really care, and aggressive ignorance where fears based on said ignorance cause the person to lash out. In summary, I'm going to put some beer in the fridge and go to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 Hi Brink, you wrote: The lady who rented me my bungalo in Kata was probably about 70 years old and as jaded as they come. Everyday I would wander down to buy something from her shop. She would always ask the same thing, "Aow arai,farang!?!" This was said in a, what do YOU want, kind of tone. I started speaking to her in Thai. "Yai, kor nam keng noi, krup." after about a month of this I was surprised when one day I wandered in and she said, "Aow arai luek?" Pretty cool transformation. Just out of interest, what does leuk mean? [ May 23, 2001: Message edited by: Boo Radley ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brink15 Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 Boo, It means child or son. It is used also as a term of endearment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.