Is this the norm in Thailand

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Zane May:

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Dear Mr. May,

 

Respectfully, I'd have to disagree with you on a couple of points. I know this is a very old and unresolvable arugment, but...

 

"It is people like you who come over here thinking in back home prices, shower money all over the girls and let them jack you around so you just have your fun. 'It's only a couple of hundred baht.'"

 

I agree with you and the others who make the point that once a price is set it should be the price paid, and any increase should be given as a reward, not extracted by coercion.

 

But I can't see how one could think in anything other than "back home" money terms. After all, ones spending power is tied directly to ones income and how well (or poorly) that converts to the local currency.

 

"This screws things up for everybody else. We are not all big money guys here! Some are scraping by on Social Security, or LOS jobs that pay next to nothing or whatever. In my case I can just barely do what I'm doing which is to try to have the best time possible on a limited income."

 

I'm not clear from this whether you have a baht-based income. But if so, aren't you framing your argument around "back home" or in this case simply "home" income vis-a-vis spending habits? What is sauce for the dollar-based income must be sauce for the baht-based, yes?

 

Isn't it easier to just say that 1 girl shouldn't cost more than 2 hours of pre-tax income? This removes any inequalities of location.

 

Also, your argument that "This screws things up for everybody else" is probably a half-truth at best. I'm certain that there must be what you could call "World-class whores" in Thailand, whose payscale would put them out of reach for everyone on this board. Should they be expected to take a pay cut to bring them within reach of "us".

 

The other side of the "screws things up" argument is that those who are expatriates (and probably lower incomes vs. visitors) have some advantages, linguistic and cultural, that vistors wouldn't have when conducting negotiations.

 

"You cannot think in terms of US prices here! One girlfreind told me that she worked in construction labor back home. Hard, hot work from 8 - 5 everyday including Sunday. 100 - 120 baht per day! And someone is telling you to give her 1,000 baht or 1,500 baht for laying on her back!!?? That is what is unreal!"

 

This is not terribly out of scale with what you might find in western countries. An unskilled or semi-skilled construction laborer might make $10-$12 per hour while a prostitute could expect to make $100-$150 per hour.

 

"I had a good looking girl on beach road offer short time for 300 baht. I had an ugly one offer on the spot service for 100 baht. Just THINK in terms of Thailand when you are here, OK?"

 

I'm curious to know what sort of contact you had with these two before the offers were made, what language they happened in and whether you're an "obvious" expat or look "touristy" or fall somewhere in the middle. I rather doubt it's the second.

 

Respectfully,

 

2YL

[Alfmaz]

"I did all the battering for him"

After he told me about it and No I had no problem and yes he got some nice girls not for long time R/ships by him, they still send emails.

[zanemay]

Two Yellow Lines,

I can't recall seeing such well-crafted, polite rhetoric on our board before. However you simply miss my points:

1) Challenging it may be, but DO NOT THINK IN TERMS OF BACK HOME MONEY!! We all make a reference to dollars, marks, guilders, francs or whatever. But while you are making that reference, try to think in terms of the local economy - the sales girl that makes 4,000 baht/month. I went to a dentist at the BKK-Pattaya hospital the other day, a situation that is more expensive than one of the numerous dental clinics. I had my teeth cleaned by a dentist. The service and consultations was 600 baht ($14). The last time I had the same service in the US, with an oral hygienist rather than a dentist, I paid $109. So what!

2) "Also, your argument that "This screws things up for everybody else" is probably a half-truth at best." Ah well who can dispute a statement like that! Most of life is "probably a half-truth at best."

Except for the immediate beneficiary, overpaying does no one any good. When I say "This screws things up for everybody else" I mean it distorts the economics of particular situations and if you do enough of it you mess with the local economy permanently, something farangs are famous for. There are things we do that we shouldn't do beside overpaying bargirls:

Tip in restaurants. Usually the tip is build in, a tip is not expected, don't tip besides leaving the coins. But farang, goodhearted, stupid farang, who always tip at home, think they should tip here even though the service is usually abominable - bring the food and not look at you again for an hour. Do you see how tipping would "screw it up" for the next guy who might live here and knows you don't have to/shouldn't tip?

Tip taxi drivers. (Don't do it unless some truly exceptional service has been rendered.) I went to play golf in BKK. Traffic was bad. It took 45 minutes to get to the course. The meter said 120 baht. I paid 120 baht. In the US I would have paid 1,750 baht. Should I tip 500 because of that? Because I don't think 120 is fair here because it is a fraction of what I pay back home? Don't get taxi drivers thinking that every farang is going to tip them. They will just be disappointed. They may become rude. Distorting the local economy is a disservice to everyone here.

(On the other hand, I was riding a baht bus in Pattaya the other day. I was aboard with one other farang. He got out before me and confronted the driver, "You want 5 baht? You don't want 5 baht? You want it or not?" He put it away and walked. I guess he had a problem with the 5 baht Thai/10 baht farang policy or was in a really foul mood. There is no excuse for that behavior. To save the driver face you must pay something. Later when I got out I gave the driver 20 baht -10 for me and 10 for the AH - and apologized. That kind of behavior also screws things up for everyone else.)

3) To answer a question: I don't come across like a newbie tourist when I talk to girls, although I don't speak much Thai. But I don't ask "How much?" which translates into "I am new here. Please screw me." You are supposed to know how much, which is a balance between the standard rates and your evaluation of performance.

If a girl attempts to tell me how much or raises the question of money when we meet, she will soon be looking at a piece of empty space which ZM formerly occupied. I have been seeing a new girl for a few days now. She speaks good English: "If I like man, I no speak money. Whatever he want good. I sa-moke, everything. What he give me okay. If I no like man I speak 1,000 baht. He fuck me, I no move."

4) I admit it is difficult for a young guy on a two week holiday with a pocketful of money and a hard on to keep all of this in mind. (Not suggesting this is you.) Nonetheless, as vain as it may be, I/we would like encourage those types to "Fight for our future, fight for your baht.

quote:

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Originally posted by 2yellowlines:

Originally posted by Zane May:

 

Dear Mr. May,

 

Respectfully, I'd have to disagree with you on a couple of points.

I can't see how one could think in anything other than "back home" money terms. After all, ones spending power is tied directly to ones income and how well (or poorly) that converts to the local currency.

 

"This screws things up for everybody else. We are not all big money guys here! Some are scraping by on Social Security, or LOS jobs that pay next to nothing or whatever.

Isn't it easier to just say that 1 girl shouldn't cost more than 2 hours of pre-tax income? This removes any inequalities of location.

 

Also, your argument that "This screws things up for everybody else" is probably a half-truth at best.

 

"I had a good looking girl on beach road offer short time for 300 baht. I had an ugly one offer on the spot service for 100 baht. Just THINK in terms of Thailand when you are here, OK?"

 

I'm curious to know what sort of contact you had with these two before the offers were made, what language they happened in and whether you're an "obvious" expat or look "touristy" or fall somewhere in the middle. I rather doubt it's the second.

 

Respectfully,

 

2YL

[pattaya127]

Phuket Feb 91: my worse mercenary experience. this beautiful girl asks me to have a drink with her. Somehow she is so gorgeous, for the first time i ask how much. she says 1000 or 1500, can't recall. Ok, there we go, and as i had repaired myself from first time, i start working her up again, then she stops and asks me for another 1000 bahts. As i tell her this must be a joke, the shit hits the fan ("i no cheap hooker from Pattaya, etc...) and i find myself alone at 3 am, poorer by 1500. You know what? I HATE PUKHET!!!!

Ahahah

[Grabii]

Zane,

I agree with everything you said except the part about "This screws things up for everybody else." I don't think there are that many people around who spend like the good Doctor, and fewer girls who've had a steady enough diet of such spenders to expect it as the norm.

Certainly some tourists might get hit up and suckered in by girls who are looking for the Doctors type, but people such as yourself and other knowledgeable punters would quickly pass on such girls and, in the process, give said girls a counter-lesson in economics.

chai mai

Regards, JEff

quote:

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Originally posted by Zane May:

Wow Rug Doctor,

You have really rung my bell!! I consider myself the board version of the Baht Police!! It is people like you who come over here thinking in back home prices, shower money all over the girls and let them jack you around so you just have your fun. "It's only a couple of hundred baht." This screws things up for everybody else. We are not all big money guys here! Some are scraping by on Social Security, or LOS jobs that pay next to nothing or whatever. In my case I can just barely do what I'm doing which is to try to have the best time possible on a limited income.

You cannot think in terms of US prices here! One girlfreind told me that she worked in construction labor back home. Hard, hot work from 8 - 5 everyday including Sunday. 100 - 120 baht per day! And someone is telling you to give her 1,000 baht or 1,500 baht for laying on her back!!?? That is what is unreal!

I had a good looking girl on beach road offer short time for 300 baht. I had an ugly one offer on the spot service for 100 baht. Just THINK in terms of Thailand when you are here, OK?

Respectfully (although admittedly a little ticked),

Zane May

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