The tailor shop mystery . . .

[Khun004]

shops aren't just used to hand goods out over the counter as you seem to think. There are hundreds of other reasons why they may exist, launder money or legitamise a working visa are just two that come to mind.

Thank you, pe7e, for that excellent example you described.

Now we have some good clues, something we can chew on.

 

Laundering money?

Yes, could be.

In fact, one of the tailor shops I frequently pass, recently put a sign in the window, "Licensed Money Exchange Inside".

Hmmm...

 

But I wonder:

If the main objective is to launder money, aren't there many, less-obvious, ways of doing that?

Wouldn't a non-descript, export-import stall in Pratunam be a better vehicle?

Or a variety of different businesses, rather than concentrating in exactly the same industry.

I'm not interested in laundering anything, but a costly shop, in a high-rent area, with expensive fixtures, doesn't seem the best choice for a black-market business.

 

Working visa?

Hmmm...

You may be on to something there.

Bring the nephews over from India.

Open yet another tailor shop for each.

Hire the minimum, required number of Thais to stand out front as touts.

Or, to simply appear on the payroll as "fronts".

And, there you have it: a working visa for another relative.

 

Well, pe7e, that is certainly the best fit to the facts, so far.

 

But I have my doubts.

Let's say a working visa is the purpose.

That would explain so many little shops, but no really big tailor shops anywhere in Thailand.

That would explain so many new shops going up in areas that are already saturated with other, similar, shops.

 

But what it doesn't explain is why so many of the tailor shops have invested so much in attractive fixtures, in bright lights, in so many bolts of cloth.

And it doesn't explain why most are located in the high-rent, tourist areas.

 

If just a working visa was the purpose, couldn't they make do with a tiny shop, over in Thonburi, where rent is cheap?

And just a simple sign, enough lights to put the place on life-support, and an absolute minimum of fabric on display?

Why spend big money to accomplish something that is just as well done with much less money?

 

I'm still mystified.

I hope for more thoughts here.

[elef]

One tailor shop in a neighborhood might make decent margins, but so many shops, all competing with each other, doesn't make sense at all.

 

So if there're many petrol stations and few cars on a road you suppose they live under the same conditions, actually it's exactly so. Both the petrol market in the world and the tailor market for foreigners in BKK are examples of oligopoly markets.

 

I'm financial consultant (CPA) working with M & A since more than 30 years.

[ChristianTroy]

How do they survive and stay in business?

 

Just because you have only seen 1 guy in a year doesn't mean there aren't more customers. I was under the same false impression as you for almost one year untill I needed a few new suits as a result of going to the gym. I was in there for at least 1 hour and the telephone was busy almost all the time. and at least 4 other customers picked up orders. Many if not the most do also function as a travel agency, call center and other stuff in the back office, some even have it written on the windows but we just don't read that stuff.

 

When I went in there I thought they treat me like a kinf because I thought I am the first guy ever in this shop, when the 4 others picked up their orders I realised that I am just one out of many! Don't forget that a good tailor comes to your room to take your measurements, and don't forget that the hotels nearby do order their uniforms from tailors too. Those persistant fellas approchaing you outside of the shop are a pain in the ass but the usually get a couple of people inside. Now I cannot speak about BKK shops but in Pattaya it is not exactly expensive to run a Tailor shop, it is basically a room with a counter, a fitting room and an office and a couch and a table, the rents aren't sky high either. I have ordered 4 complete suits and 6 button down shirts and this order should have covered the rent easily. The most of them don't pay salary because they are all one family working in that shop!

 

It takes one order like mine to get break even in PTY, no idea about BKK!

[Bangkoktraveler]

Khun004, do yourself a favor and go to a tailor outside of the tourist area and see how much a shirt cost. Then see how much the same shirt cost in a tourist area.... I have seen an easy 10 times markup. Foreigners are willing to pay the prices. One sale can equal 10 or more sales outside the tourist area.

[buddha]

BT: "do yourself a favor and go to a tailor outside of the tourist area and see how much a shirt cost."

 

I agree [again?]. Even the little guy on the corner with the foot operated sewing machine does work for 25-30 baht that would have cost $15 USD in NYC. A simple, yet professional hemming of the pants.

 

Behind him the 'thai' tailor shop is mainly doing uniform work, but they have 'copied' a pair of designer pants I really like. They did it for about 1/3 the price of what I was quoted on suk, soi 13 and I really felt more comfortable with the fact that the work was being done on site. They also let me pick my own fabric and were not pushy whatsoever. They got the pants perfect right down to the smallest detail....

 

I still see that Khun004 has a great point....

 

When I visited here in 2001 there were WAY more internet cafes, the market didn't bear enough customers so one by one they dried up.....Why don't the tailors disappear?

 

I went with a friend to 'Patricks' and he had a suit made for him. They tried to be sneaky as the thai delivery man brought it in to the back room in a paper bag and then they brought it out on a hanger....they claimed it was made in house. They were pushy with materials, they even gave his pants pleats [yuk!] when we specifically asked for none. I didn't find the service good at all. Since thais were undoubtably doing the work i found a thai store front. Started with some small jobs, and then eventually got some really custom stuff.

 

I'm puzzled as ever about their ability to maintain....

[adawes]

So many (all?) of them aren't particularly honest ... in fact, how many of them haven't won the non-existent Tailor of the Year Award for all the years they have been open, plus a few more before that?

 

You can't pick up a free tourist map without seeing at least one tailor ad in it, and usually several. That has to cost a lot.

 

As far as the actual tailors who do the sewing go, I've always been under the impression that it's Chinese who do this work, and not Thais. In either case, there's the possibility (probability?) that the work is likely to be done in a sweatshop. All the Indians do is take orders.

 

The situation is far worse in Hong Kong than in Bangkok. In HK you can't walk 5 feet down Nathan Road without being pestered by a tailor parasite.

[dsab]

I think a lot of their business is done via Phone. A person gets once measured, and then orders via phone if he needs something.

 

Some if these Tailors even fly regularly to Europe to take measurements of customers, and then send the stuff by mail.

 

I know several Tailors who do this Europe Trip 2 to 3 times a year. If you buy a suit in their shop, they will ask for your phone number and address. Some day you will get a call from someone saying... Hello Mister, I will be in your area in Germany, do you need a new suit? If you bring some friends, then you will get your suit for free.

[Khun004]

So many (all?) of them aren't particularly honest

Good point.

Lots of posts on many travel forums about tailor shop scams.

See one good example in post above from buddha.

 

Of course, the problems would get mentioned, while honest service is merely expected.

Do you think so many -- hundreds and hundreds of tailor shops in Bangkok alone -- can make a living on scams alone?

 

You can't pick up a free tourist map without seeing at least one tailor ad in it, and usually several. That has to cost a lot.

Exactly, and that's a useful observation.

How to these tailor shops, with so few customers, pay for all those ads?

 

As far as the actual tailors who do the sewing go, I've always been under the impression that it's Chinese who do this work, and not Thais. In either case, there's the possibility (probability?) that the work is likely to be done in a sweatshop. All the Indians do is take orders.

I have passed two of those sewing shops many times.

I can easily take you there if you want to see for yourself.

Indeed, "sweatshops" is the best description.

But that's not the focus of the OP.

The question is, how do so many Indian tailor retail shops survive?

 

[Khun004]

I think a lot of their business is done via Phone. A person gets once measured, and then orders via phone if he needs something.

Hmmm ... very good point.

I hadn't considered that possibility.

It does fit the fact of seeing so few customers actually inside the shops.

 

But, I wonder:

Can it be that hundreds and hundreds of tailor shops in Bangkok, are all doing most of their business by phone, fax, and Internet?

 

Some if these Tailors even fly regularly to Europe to take measurements of customers, and then send the stuff by mail.

 

I know several Tailors who do this Europe Trip 2 to 3 times a year. If you buy a suit in their shop, they will ask for your phone number and address. Some day you will get a call from someone saying... Hello Mister, I will be in your area in Germany, do you need a new suit? If you bring some friends, then you will get your suit for free.

Hmmm ... another useful observation.

So, maybe the retail shops are a "lure" to attract new customers, but the repeat business is actually done in the customers' countries, or by phone?

 

That could be a clue.

50 local shops could send one tailor -- one member of the family -- to travel abroad.

Each name on his call list is attached to a different shop.

Very interesting.

 

Thank you, dsab, I think you have contributed some valuable clues this mystery.

 

 

[Khun004]

I have seen an easy 10 times markup. Foreigners are willing to pay the prices. One sale can equal 10 or more sales outside the tourist area.

Probably true, but comparative prices are irrelevant if nobody is buying.

The retail tailor shops I have observed have barely any customers.

How can they pay the rent, utilities, and generate an acceptable return on cost of capital invested without sufficient numbers of customers?

That's the mystery.