robaus Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Hereâ??s the germ of an idea that might solve mine and other retiree or frequent travellerâ??s dilemmaâ?¦. Read on. I am NOT trying to sell a house. I'm trying to buy one. This is a fair dinkum home ownership deal. Iâ??m just an ordinary retired bloke looking for a base in Aus solution. Not a scam, not timeshare, and not a lease only retirement property where you never get any of the capital gains benefits. Nothing in it for me except our mutual interest. The problem is: you want to go travelling or even live overseas for a large portion of the year, but you need a base to store your possessions without being a burden to your friends and relatives, a place to call home with your own lockable bedroom, a car to drive around in, someone to pick you up and drop you off at the airport in between trips, all the life support systems like phone and net immediately on tap whenever you return home, and peace of mind that your property is being looked after while youâ??re away by joint owners who care about it. You want to own a house, but you donâ??t want 12 months financial and time commitment to all the hassles involved (agents, tenants, security, storm damage etc). You also want to stay on the property ladder and have a permanent roof over your head. Under Western Australian law you can jointly own a home entirely freehold as â??tenants in commonâ? with equal shares in a property. (nothing remotely like timeshare â?? this is proper legal home ownership with the 4 or 5 owners named on the title deed) I already have a mate from Sydney interested in moving to Perth to share. Iâ??m looking for 2 or 3 other responsible, considerate and easy to get along with people to form a syndicate to either buy an established 5 bed roomed house, or build a brand new one, in Perth, which is close to SE Asia. Running costs can easily be sorted fairly. We discuss it between us and establish the rules before we commit one cent. Inheritance by your estate and selling out your share if you need to would be worked out between us legally too. Personally, I would only want to use the property for about 2 months of the year usually in southern winter/autumn when I return to Oz to do my tax, and in a large house one neednâ??t be in each othersâ?? way even if thereâ??s an overlap of residence. Itâ??s flexible; stay there as long as you like â?? your call; you own it equally. One could have guests staying too - park a caravan in the driveway as a spare bedroom. Since foreigners can own land in Australia too, I could include non Aussies in the syndicate. Perth is 5 hours flight time from Singapore and 6.5 hours from Bangkok - both cheap travel hubs. Perth is a beautiful clean city with a Mediterranean climate, the best beaches and wines in the world, and an amazing state to explore as well. Low cost carrier Tiger Airways connects to Singapore and Bangkok from as little as 10,000 baht (SIN) and 13,500 baht(BKK) i.e. US$400 rtn incl taxes. Thai, Royal Brunei, and Qantas frequently have promotional fares too. There would be absolutely no money up front, until we as a syndicate go and look at properties and decide what to buy or build. Let me know if youâ??re interested. I have a few more thoughts on the subject. Does anyone know of any other forum (Oz based or international) where I could post this idea. I tried Google â?¦â?Âretirees Australia newsgroups forumâ?Â.. too many hits. I need some keywords to narrow it down. Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ongchaiyai Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Hi Robaus Sounds like you are in the same situation as many others....1/2 a year here and there with no real plans of staying in any one location, due to visas, finances, pensions or any of those other legal loopholes, and as for storing your gear....a great pain in the rear (or very costly)I think it is a grand plan and I wish you success. I am not in this position, but believe that you may have captured a niche market. So good luck and give some feedback.....I will circulate your message and ideas - who knows. ONYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robaus Posted September 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thanks for the encouragement, Ongchaiyai. I had the same feeling that there must be lots of other singles in the same boat as me, who want a place to call home in a western country. I've had a condo in Pattaya for 7 years now - I'm very happy here, and do sidetrips to other Asian countries and Europe for a break every few months. But I always feel I'm at the mercy of the government here, who can shift the goal posts whenever they feel like it. It would be nice to have a more secure bolt hole in Australia too. I'll keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torneyboy Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Sounds like a good idea ..good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shygye Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 It is fine until ... Someone is "late" for a payment or trashes the place or steals the appliances/"kitchen sink" before doing a runner. Or rents out the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robaus Posted September 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Shygye, I think you have some sort of timeshare model in mind with a group of other anonymous holders, where you get your allotted time and then walk away from all responsibility. Whereas I plan this to be our home. There would be no mortgages or borrowing allowed on the property. We buy or build with cash. So there would be no late payments. If you havenâ??t got the money, you canâ??t join the syndicate â?? simple as that. I envisage each of the 5 people contributing A$150-200k (approx US$120k-160k, GBP60k-80k), so that we could have roughly a million Aussie dollar 5 bed roomed home. Most retirees perhaps have already owned a home in their lifetime and have that sort of money. I donâ??t want charity cases. I don't think people would do a runner and leave that sort of money behind. I'm not looking for low life syndicate members anyway. I want us all to be fair minded considerate mates, and treat this place as a home. Running costs: rates, insurance, water, elec, gas, phone, net would come to about A$3,500 pa and be divided on a nights spent under the roof basis. If each memberâ??s total nights (and their guests) there came to 70, 100, 150, 90, 200 (total 610), person A would pay 70/610*$3500, person B 100/610*$3500 etc. I donâ??t want nitpicking syndicate members who sweat the small stuff. After all, thatâ??s small beer considering your share in the property is increasing at 10% a year in Perth on average (your share $15-20k). If we all (or some) share a car(s) too, some sort of user pays formula â?? not rocket science to work out, and easily compensated for by the convenience. Guests would be allowed but not on a semi-permanent basis. And also only when the syndicate member is in residence too. You couldnâ??t just give your keys to a friend and say â??Iâ??ve got a place in WA. Go and have a monthâ??s holiday thereâ?Â. All the small and big details can be ironed out by consensus on a set of rules BEFORE we even buy a property or commit one cent. And if a problem arises later that we havenâ??t thought of, then we sort that out too with mutual agreement. But youâ??re right, shygye, as they say in Yorkshire, â??Thereâ??s nowt as queer as folk.â? With the best will in the world and a best weeding out before youâ??re even allowed to join the syndicate, you might find someone abusing the setup. So there would have to be a blackballing mechanism too (hopefully never used), with an agreed formula whereby the leaving syndicate member is not out of pocket, and nor are the remaining ones who have to find a replacement. You're right to be cynical or skeptical, because there are tosspots aplenty in this world. I suppose I'm looking for 2 others who are as fair minded, responsible and considerate as me. A retired mate of mine in UK recently divorced is interested in joining and wants to spend 4 colder northern months each year downunder, so now looking for just 2 others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shygye Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 How about leaving the syndicate. Who is going to buy him out. What about a member dies, now his heirs wants their value in the house. This could force the sale of the house just like in a divorce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robaus Posted September 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Valid points, Shygye. Thanks for the feedback. >>How about leaving the syndicate. Who is going to buy him out? â?¦. That is why the initial selection of the syndicate member is important. I want someone who is responsible and also a stable individual who is in it for the long haul. Prevention is better than cure. Ideally, one doesnâ??t want the inconvenience of a syndicate member leaving, but as you say, thereâ??s always Murphyâ??s Law. This is one of the things weâ??d have to agree upon, before we form the syndicate. Possible solutions: 1. The leaving member may have to wait up to 6 months to get his money back at an agreed formula (indexed to inflation, formal valuation?), less expenses incurred in finding a new suitable syndicate member. If a new member is found sooner by advertising or via a forum such as this, then the leaving member will get their money back sooner. If at the end of 6 months no suitable new member is found, then the other syndicate members will buy him out â?? no problem for me or the other 2 people who are presently interested. The money side of it wouldnâ??t bother me; the house is a brilliant investment anyway. I simply want 5 members because that would more or less guarantee thereâ??s always someone in residence, keeping an eye on the place, and I need only be there for about 2 months each year. And of course you could buy/build a home with lots of living space with $1m 2. The leaving member is bought out immediately by the other members but less an inconvenience penalty fee, made up of 6 months bank interest + legal transfer fees. Right now that would all amount to about A$16,000 total penalty fee. I tend to favour #2 â?? a cleaner, quicker break. Option 1 though might work out cheaper for the leaving member. But it would all be up for discussion, and when agreed upon incorporated in a legal contract that we all sign. But there wouldnâ??t be any forced sale unless 3 or 4 of us drop down dead together. People canâ??t help dying of course. One of the conditions of joining would be that all members must have a will, inform the others where it is lodged, and who are the executors. The executors would all have a copy of the signed agreement as outlined above. I have a mate in Perth who has downsized to a small retirement village unit. If he leaves or when he dies, his heirs will get only what he paid for it (none of the capital gains) and also minus a 10% penalty fee. Not that heâ??ll be around to care about it anyway! He has to pay ongoing hefty maintenance fees too. And itâ??s left empty for 6 months each year when heâ??s in Pattaya. But retired baby boomers are flocking to buy into these deals. He says he wished heâ??d known what was on my mind, and he would have joined me. I have another English mate here in Pattaya (letâ??s call him Fred), who used to own his own home in London, probably worth a fortune now. Years ago he sold it to his daughter for a pittance on condition that there would always be a bed there for him. 4 years later, the daughter divorced and sold out to her ex husband. Bye bye to Fredâ??s bed, and hello to an estranged daughter sadly. His bank savings have gradually been whittled away with a debauched early retirement here in Pattaya. Now he lives here on a UK seniors pension (fixed at the rate when he turned 65, not indexed to UK cost of living because he is overseas); he canâ??t afford to go back to live in UK again, and he has to do constant visa runs. Iâ??ve told him to get a retirement visa â?? I think he could just about meet the conditions of X amount in the bank plus his regular pension. If ever he has to go back to UK because of ill health, Iâ??ve told him to make sure he collapses as he gets off the plane at Heathrow Airport. That way the airport authorities (for fear of being sued) â??have toâ? get him into hospital and the hospital social workers will help him jump the queue into a nursing home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAT_AUSSIE Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Just one little spanner in your works Rob. I believe the foriegn investment review board will only allow a foriegner to purchace vacant land if he/she (or a he-she) intends to build on that land within a specified time frame, thus ruling out the purchase of an established dwelling. On top of that top of that once the home has been built on the land if the owner leaves the country for (not sure how long) amount of time that person is required to sell the property. http://www.firb.gov.au/content/real_estate/residential.asp An Aussie you prolly be a simpler solution. Lots of miners in WA, read-single blokes, never home, flat out working and cashed up. Should not be to difficult to achieve what you are attempting. FA..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robaus Posted September 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 FA, Thanks for that info. I Have seen Singaporeans buying properties in Perth, but when I come to think about it now, it was at a home open for a brand new town house... maybe that counted as "The Government, therefore, seeks to channel foreign investment into activity that directly increases the supply of new housing (that is, new developments - house and land packages, home units, townhouses, etc) and brings benefits to the local building industry and their suppliers." I don't want to have to marry my English mate... hehe. Not sure if same sex marriages are legal in WA yet! ...EXEMPT "foreign persons purchasing, as joint tenants, with their Australian citizen spouse property that is zoned residential." Obviously, I'll have to look into it more when I get back to Perth in 3 weeks time, and find out if my English mate can buy in as a 20% stake holder into building a new house, even if we actually purchase an old house and agree to demolish it and rebuild within a certain time period. I never say never, but maybe you're right and I should look closer to home for syndicate members. I'm in no rush. Thanks again for your valuable advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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