SurinBum Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Well-respected Thai historian, Charnvit Kasetsiri, continues his logical push to change as it once was. http://www.irrawaddy.org/opinion_story.php?art_id==16227 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiceMan Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 The link doesn't work for me, I get an error from the irrawaddy site "The article ID you specified is not available". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Dr Charnvit is a brilliant academic, but I wish he would translate his many books on Thai history and politics into English! He also is not too much for the practical. e.g. He was rector of Thammasat, but resigned at the first sign of trouble (the squabble over moving the undergrad programmes out to Rangsit). He apparently is a wonderful lecturer, since his students rave about him. Oddly enough, before the Pibulsongkram years Thailand had a double system. The country was Siam in English, but Prathet Thai in Thai. Both names were on stamps and paper currency. I can't see the country going back to Siam though. Historically, Siam only refers to the Chao Phaya River basin. It does not include the Isaan Laos, nor the Northern "Lanna Thai" folks. However, they do belong to the Thai linguistic group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBum Posted August 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Dr Charnvit is a brilliant academic, but I wish he would translate his many books on Thai history and politics into English! He also is not too much for the practical. e.g. He was rector of Thammasat, but resigned at the first sign of trouble (the squabble over moving the undergrad programmes out to Rangsit). He apparently is a wonderful lecturer, since his students rave about him. Oddly enough, before the Pibulsongkram years Thailand had a double system. The country was Siam in English, but Prathet Thai in Thai. Both names were on stamps and paper currency. I can't see the country going back to Siam though. Historically, Siam only refers to the Chao Phaya River basin. It does not include the Isaan Laos, nor the Northern "Lanna Thai" folks. However, they do belong to the Thai linguistic group. Interesing that Professor Charnvit had no desire to play 'the game'. Agreed, quite brilliant and engaging. One would think that he'd have a whole new appreciative market as to the traslation of his material. In Thai, the books are numerous and Thai journal articles are many. In these circles of historical scholarship, he's almost considered an obscurity because his work is generally conducted in Thai, which certainly should discount his genius. Quite capable in English, as there are a number of journal articles to be found. I believe his classic book regarding the 1932 Siam {Coup} Revolution can be found in translation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBum Posted August 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Interestingly enough, I terribly fascinated with how the locals considered themselves back when, before the nationalistic/political name of 'Thailand' came about...what did they call themselves. I've had a number of opportunities to discuss this and that with elders for years. Very intriguing to listen to what was then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 It was only during the 1930s nationalism craze - led by Pibulsongkram and Luang Vichit Wattakarn (who composed the current national anthem) - that everyone suddenly became "Thai". Before that the folks in Isaan were called Lao and the northerners were Northern Lao. Nowadays they'll be insulted if you call them that. (My Mrs always tells me she is khon Thai 100%. But once in a while, she'll admit she is really Thai Lua and sort of Lao.) p.s. When I first came here I knew a man in his 70s who had been chief mechanical engineer of the RTR. He was born in Sukhothai in 1898 and told about travelling by elephant to Phitsanulok - a 2 day journey! Rama VI sent him to study in the States in 1919, and he saw President Harding's inauguration. He was a private in WWI, but wasn't chosen to go to France. In WWII the Japs insisted he should be an officer, so the army made him a colonel. His wife was killed in an allied bombing raid on the rail yards, and he said it was too much trouble to get another one. He must be long gone. RIP "Murphy". I also met a handful of the Thai volunteers who had served in France in WWI. All gone now. Thailand was very nationalistic in the '30s and '40s, more so than now. Several "luk krueng" told me how they used to spend their time with each other, since the "real Thais" (like as not Chinese) looked down on them. These half-and-halfs usually were the children of generals or lesser royals too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTO Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 I've interviewed the oldest man in our village - he's 84 - same age as my mum. I am trying to get a interested local to do a full interview oral history of the village and area. The story of the village is quite interesting - ans are the "migrants" who came and settled here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Most of my wife's mother's ancestors migrated from Sip Song Pan Na (now in China) during the second half of the 19th century. My Mrs and several of her colleagues took a package tour to Sip Song Pan Na a few years ago. She told me the people in the cities are mainly Chinese newcomers, but the country folks are still the same. She and her friends could communicate with them easily enough using Kham Muang. Another of her mama's grannies was a daughter of the Chao of Cheng Tung - now in Burma. Folks seem to have moved around whenever they felt like it back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBum Posted August 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 We've Khmer roots, in culture, customs, and language. Most feel akin to 'Krom Khmer' than to such promoted Thai nationalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Just as there used to be tens of thousands of ethnic Thais on the Cambodian side of the border (until the Khmer Rouge killed most of them off). There are even Thai villages scattered across Kelantan in NE Malaysia. International borders tend to be a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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