Michael Moore V Snipers

[bust]

Have been following this over the last few days. Interesting thoughts by Michael Moore and can understand why people are upset over his comments about the new Clint Eastwood film.

 

 

“My dad was in the First Marine Division in the South Pacific in World War II. His brother, my uncle, Lawrence Moore, was an Army paratrooper and was killed by a Japanese sniper 70 years ago next month.

My dad always said, ‘Snipers are cowards. They don’t believe in a fair fight. Like someone coming up from behind you and coldcocking you. Just isn’t right. It’s cowardly to shoot a person in the back. Only a coward will shoot someone who can’t shoot back.'â€

 

I guess a sniper had a different meaning back then. Morre's response to all his critics.

 

"My 12 Years of Support for the Troops "

Before I post my more general thoughts later today or tomorrow about the ruckus of the past week regarding the response to my heartfelt comment on twitter about my uncle who was killed in World War II by a sniper - and how I was taught to despise snipers of any stripe - I would like to address this one insane mantra that the right-wing has twisted my tweet into: "Michael Moore hates the troops."

Well, who would know better about hating our troops than those who supported sending them into a senseless war Iraq in the first place?

And, for 4,482 of them, a senseless, unnecessary and regrettable death.

If you supported that invasion, if you voted for George W. Bush and the Republicans and Democrats who backed this war, then you are the ones who have some 'splainin' to do. Not me. You.

Because only "haters" of our brave young men and women would recklessly send them into harm's way for something that had absolutely nothing to do with defending the United States of America. Nothing. Nothing to do with 9/11. Nothing. In fact, WE, the USA, were the ones who provided Saddam with his weapons in the 1980s that he used against the Kurds. We wanted him to use them against the Iranians, but you hand a crazy guy crazy weapons, something crazy is probably going to happen. Ask Osama bin Laden about that -- what he did with the crazy training, crazy money and crazy weapons that WE gave him. Oh wait. You can't ask him. Because the new president took him out. No 150,000 troop invasion necessary. Just 12 or so Navy SEALS and two and a half choppers.

Here's the truth they can't or won't report: I'M the one who has supported these troops - much more than the bloviators on Fox News. To prove it (and I know this is going to crush some of you out there), here's just a partial list of all the things I do and have done for those men and women who serve -- and I guarantee you, you've never heard any of this reported about what the real me does because, frankly, it messes up their little story of the fictional "Michael Moore" they've created for your hate and enjoyment (please feel free to cut, paste and send this to your conservative brother-in-law):

** I have an aggressive affirmative action policy specifically to hire Iraq and Afghanistan veterans at my film production company, my movie theaters in Michigan and my film festival. I have asked other businesses in my town (and nationwide) to join with me on this. http://www.traverseticker.com/…/michael-moore-asks-business… . A vet was an editor on my films "Fahrenheit 9/11" and "Sicko" and a vet (who served in both Iraq AND Afghanistan) is the projectionist at my flagship theater in Michigan (to name a few).

** I also ask people to post a sign I designed and have made available: "I Shop Where Vets Work". Here's my policy and the poster: http://www.statetheatretc.org/veterans#opening (Can someone at Fox News send me your posted affirmative action program to hire Iraq and Afghanistan vets?)

** Since I opened my movie theaters in northern Michigan, this has been my admission policy: "Admission to all movies at my theaters is FREE, 365 days of the year, for ALL active duty military and their families."

** I allow local veterans support groups to use my theater to meet for PTSD issues, I host quarterly PTSD summits, and I've hosted a conference to start a jobs movement for vets in our town.

** I have raised tens of thousands of dollars through my website for groups that help veterans and wounded warriors: http://web.archive.org/…/20140829053240/http://fa…/soldiers/

** In the early years of the war I made all my books and DVDs available free of charge to all service members through BooksForSoldiers.com

** I produced and hosted a benefit for military families at the House of Blues that received national attention to their plight (raw clips here from the AP: https://vimeo.com/117687290 )

** I will NOT do business with vendors who don't have a policy to hire vets.

** I gave voice to the troops who weren't being heard by publishing a book of their letters from the front lines in "Will They Every Trust Us Again?" (NY Times bestseller for 4 weeks)

** I regularly post blogs from troops http://www.ivaw.org/blog/ivaw-featured-michael-moore and I show and support many movies about what they've gone through in the past 12 years at my theaters.

** I took vets, soldiers and their families on a 60-city tour of the country so their concerns could be heard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm3IsgoBNc0

** I helped Iraq Vets against the War with "Operation Recovery" http://www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…/how-bout-dinner-just-you_b_…

** My movie, "Fahrenheit 9/11" - #1 selling/#1 rental on all military base PXs

** My books were the #1 requested books by troops from the nonprofit BooksForSoldiers.com

** I sit on the Advisory Board of the Pvt. Bradley (Chelsea) Manning Support Network

** From the Dept. of Irony: I only hire Navy SEALS and ex-special forces for when I need security - such as this week, when so-called supporters of those SEALs want me harmed.

** When my father passed away this year, in lieu of flowers I asked that donations by made in my dad's name to the veterans group, Veterans for Peace. Enough money was raised so that the Vietnam Vets chapter could build a home in Vietnam for a family still suffering from the effects of Agent Orange. It's being dedicated in my dad's name.

** I am currently showing "American Sniper" at my theater that I helped restore and that I program and help run in Manistee, MI. Not because I like it, but because, unlike the other side, I'm not a censor. I trust smart people and people of good heart will know what to do. You can't have a conversation about what Clint Eastwood is up to if you haven't seen what it is he's up to. And regardless where u are on the political spectrum, you'll see that every character in Clint's film comes out dead or permanently damaged. This ain't no John Wayne rah-rah pablum. Eastwood made maybe the greatest western ever - "Unforgiven" - but now it's sad seeing him talking to an empty chair on a stage or making an Iraq movie that Rolling Stone this week called, "too dumb to bother criticizing."

In the end, the thing I'm most proud of for what I've done for the troops was sticking my neck out 12 years ago to become a leading opponent to Bush and the war. I tried to save more lives than a sniper ever could hope to -- by preventing us from going to war in the first place. Well, I failed at that. But I've done everything else humanly possible to try and make it up to those troops when they return home -- that is, the ones lucky enough to return home.

So, Fox News and the other lazy media -- quit making shit up about me! You look ridiculous. If you want to have a debate with me about the ISSUES and the POLICIES, then let's have it. If you want to debate a movie that's trying to rewrite history, then let's have that. But when you hide behind falsehoods and then use them to try and manipulate the public, then all you are is afraid. Afraid of me, an unarmed American, and the truth I bring along as my sidekick. Only cowards have to lie. Be brave. Report the truth. It will feel good.

[Flashermac]

He turns me off because he is a pompous prat. "In the end, the thing I'm most proud of for what I've done for the troops was sticking my neck out 12 years ago to become a leading opponent to Bush and the war." Yeah, that took guts. Anybody can face bullets, but it takes real courage to be an opponent of a war.

 

He also knows fuck all about war. "Snipers are cowards. They don’t believe in a fair fight." War isn't supposed to be a "fair fight". The object is to win. Wars aren't fought under the Marquis of Queensbury rules. Was the saturation bombing of German and Japanese cities, killing 100s of thousands of civilians, considered fair? How about the fire bombings, which began on the outskirts of cities and then moved towards the center in order to trap the largest possible number of civilians and burn them to death? That's what the USAAF did to Japan, with its wooden houses and paper walls.

 

If snipers are cowards, what about troops who ambush their enemy? How about a president who orders drone strikes to kill people thousands of miles away? Not very sporting, is it?

 

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - Gen. George S. Patton

 

P.s. Good thing Michael Moore never did go to war. Even Stevie Wonder couldn't miss him with a rifle.

[baa99]

So were the Viet Cong snipers heroes?

[pasathai1]

Moore's carrer is based on his being a prat and getting people to listen to what crapola he spouts

[cavanami]

Now I see more of the "Hollyweird crowd" on jumping on the M. Moore bandwagon.

 

The movie was made to show the difficulties for a SEAL sniper's family life and strain it puts on him and his family,

per Clint Eastwood.

 

I see the real cowards as people like M. Moore.

 

Hats off to Chris Kyle and all the patriots that walked the walk!!!

[bust]

Haven't seen the movie, never served in WWI WWII Korea or Vietnam and jury is out on MM for me. Just thought it was an interesting debate. Very polarizing.

[Flashermac]

So were the Viet Cong snipers heroes?

 

To the Viet Cong they were. Moore angered folks by virtually saying that "theirs" are brave, but "ours" are cowards.

 

Chris Kyle was "different". Snipers have to be. There is a psychological test one has to pass to be accepted. Basically, it determines if you can kill without remorse. I know a former sniper with 30+ kills. He said it didn't bother him in the least. They were the "enemy", regardless of their age or sex.

[bust]

I enjoyed Jarhead. Not sure how factual it was on film.

[Flashermac]

Clint Eastwood makes movies. He's not concerned about the truth. e.g. Heartbreak Ridge is about a Marine gunnery sergeant nearing the end of his military career, in which he had won the Medal of Honor for his heroism in the U.S. Army airborne in the Korean War. Army airborne and Marines consider each other as rivals, and would almost never switch from one to the other. Also, Eastwood's Marine sergeant major is supposed to have done the same thing. In fact, the script was written about an aging career Army NCO. However, Eastwood couldn't get enough support from the Army for its filming, so he asked the Marine Corps, which agreed. Thus a few changes were made, and the hero became a Marine. The Army airborne was especially pissed off by the Marines on Grenada making a phone call to the States for needed air support. That actually happened, but the Army did it - not the Marines. I have no plans to watch Sniper, but from what I hear Eastwood has played quite loose as usual with the story. It's entertainment. Don't confuse it with history.

 

p.s. The Marine Corps also was not happy when they saw Heartbreak Ridge, since the MoH winner hero is treated like crap by his superiors and his platoon. Absolutely no one would do that! MoH winners are treated with great respect by everybody, especially by those in uniform.

[jitagawn]

I think its great he hires Vets,good for him if this true maybe others will follow suit but I still see him as a posturing fat f---