Guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 I’m sure the opinions I expressed about rude Northwest employees is exasperated by the fact that I live in a city with few choices of airlines to fly. However approximately 25 percent of my flights are on other carriers. I think other airline’s flight attendants and gate grew are on the same pay scale with similar work related stress. As far as their rate of pay is concerned they can quit if they don't like it. I’m sure many unemployed people would be happy to change places with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Big_Dick: As far as their rate of pay is concerned they can quit if they don't like it. I?m sure many unemployed people would be happy to change places with them. That is the same attitude the Airline management has, and it shows. The pay is bad, but we accept that, what really sucks is the way people in the airline business get jerked around, never getting raises when promised, dragging out contract negotiations, always trying to cut pay and benifiets. True, we can quit, so can the next guy, and the guy after that...does that justify the way management treats it's employees? no, it doesn't. The very heart of bad service is this attitude of "quit if you don't like it." Many do, and thus the high turn over, lack of trained people, and that results in bad service, and long lines etc... If the airlines aren't interested in paying a decent salary, then they will not be able to attract the best people, and retain them. Thus, you will continue to experience bad service, of course you can always move to a non NW hub city if you don't like living in one, or take the bus to another city. See we all have choices! No flame intended, but most people have no idea of how screwed up airline management is, across the industry, and are to quick to blame the employees on the "front lines". Recently, there has been some call for the government to get involved and re-regulate the industry, that would mean "protected" territory, as was the case when the industry was government controled. That ment less choice of carriers on a particular route, and that ment higher prices. While we are at it, what do you think of your Tax dollars going to pay Jim Goodwin, ex-ceo of UA multi millions for a job poorly done? Basically, the whole industry needs fixing, starting with top management at almost all the carriers. The government should stay out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 Old hippie -- Here Here! Agreed! While on the surface re-regulation at the federal level sounds appealing, in the long run I am confident that we will end up with fewer choices, higher fares and overall diminished services. While I do think that SOME aspects of air travel should be federally regulated (or even run) such as airport security or baggage/cargo movement procedures, the overall concept of returning to the days of regulation leaves me with a very bad taste.. As far as the notion of "if you don't like it you can quit" attitude.. Sure, they can do so, but the real issue is that the airlines need to start placing much higher value in their "front-line" personnel than currently done.. after all, how many flights have we taken in which we can say "wow, that was excellent service that the SEO provided for me!" ... oddly enough the people who have the largest single impact on a passengers perception (right or wrong) about a flight are also the same people who are at the bottom of the pay scale... I look at out UPS drivers (we call them Service Providers).. they are the single biggest visible part of our company.. they have daily contact with our customers.. the managers, supervisors, etc are important, yes. But our drivers are the key. They provide daily excellent service and keep the company name and image in a postive light... Not coincidentially, they are also paid (by national standards) VERY well.. --UPSer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 21, 2001 Report Share Posted December 21, 2001 UPSer, Yea, I agree with you here! Heard your aircraft mechanics just got a Tentative agreement...why can't UAL run like this? do you guys give management seminars? The execs at UA could learn a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 30, 2001 Report Share Posted December 30, 2001 Don't even get me started on the new UPS contract offer!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2001 Report Share Posted December 30, 2001 Old hippie-- I really haven't been following it that closely... I suspect that it will be a "war" to say the least.. --UPSer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 30, 2001 Report Share Posted December 30, 2001 My understanding is, the A&P Mechcanics will top out at $44+in 4 years, the slight bitch is they want more money up front!. That was always UAL's tactic, give the money in the end of the contract, then back out of it, and ask for a conession! Moist of the UPS deal looked o.k. Certainly better than I am doing! The proposed contract UPS offered was heard all over the UAL system, we are now officially the lowest paid in the industry! [ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: Old hippie ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 30, 2001 Report Share Posted December 30, 2001 UPSer, The article I sent you was from business week magazine. As for a board to post rants about poor passenger service, I would suggest instead that you contact the appropriate airline. Stay on them, after your initial complaint, follow up with another call asking how it was resolved. Passanger service begins at the top, and starts with who is hired. Sadly, the airlines no longer seem to take passanger service seriously. Buy-Drink, This thread started as moreless a joke I think, as we who work for airlines were doing a lot of bitching on another thread. As for paying passangers doing the bitching, you are right, they have the right to a legitimate bitch. On another thread, the question was asked, "why is service so bad?" (my paraphrasing) I, and others responded by saying that the trouble lies at the top. Airline managmenet is poor at best (I have been in the industry almost 22 years, starting as a ticket agent, operations, gates, ramp and maintaince. I have worked for 5 different carriers). Basically, the people at the top slashed salaries to the bone for customer service people, not to compeate initially, but to try and gain an edge over the competition cost wise. What resulted was a disaster. Instead of getting and retaining goos applicants, the industry was forced to hire people it previously wouldn't have even interviewed. This also resulted in a high turn over rate (people are less likely to stick around if there is no chance for a raise, or advancement). Combine this with the fact that everytime, yes everytime, you are due a raise, or benifit increase, the airlines cry poor, and try to gain concessions and benifit reductions.After of course top management has gotten their bonuses raises etc...They randomly lay people off, then recall them, then lay them off again, etc...They force overtime, even when flights cancel, constantly change work hours and schedules, try to cancel vacations and days off, etc, so the airline employees get pissed and respond with bad service. Like wise the flight attendants, and in some cases the low level management. Yes, these employees are free to quit, and often they do, but the airlines just hire more of the same type, and the process repeats itself. As has been posted, the people at UAL have been working on a 15% concession for 8 years now, they got stock only for 7 or less years of that time. Currwntly, we work for the wages negotiated in 1994. Many of us have a career here, and basically we like the business, and can put up with a lot to stay in it, besides, someone has to do this work. All we are basically saying here, is there is a reason for all the bad service, and a lot of the blame should go to the people who make the policies! This thread is also a place to vent, and have a little fun. We direct our gripes to the top, and I would suggest anyone who has suffered bad service do the same. I have asked this question before, and never got an answer, so I will ask again, Now that airfare is realativley the cheapest it has ever been, how much more are you willing to pay for better service? [ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: Old hippie ] [ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: Old hippie ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2001 Report Share Posted December 30, 2001 Old hippie-- Thanks! I'm searching for that article on BW's site.. It's well written..thanks! As far as your suggestion of where/how to complain about poor service.. I'd agree.. Like many things, it's the "squeeky" wheel that gets the grease. I usually suggest sending in a letter (documented) and follow-up from there. In all honesty, I'd say that (in my personal experience) the big problem with airline customer service standards is part poor performance but all inconsistent standards.. I can take a UA flight IAD-SFO and have a horrible flight complete with rude cabin staff, arrive in SFO and connect to a SFO-NRT/HKG flight and that flight is just wonderful. Obviously everyone is different, and sometimes you just "catch" some people on a bad day.. But sometimes the quality of service you get is just a crapshoot. However, (again, IMHO) with the world's top carriers (SQ for example) not only is their service good it's also always consistently good.. --UPSer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 30, 2001 Report Share Posted December 30, 2001 UPSer, Sadly, we in the states don't put the same emphasis on manners as they do in other countries. Also, relatively speaking, I have been told the salaries are relatively hirer for many foreign carriers. Also, the requirements are more stringent. I edited my previous post to respond to another's question, in case you missed anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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