Guest Posted January 3, 2002 Report Share Posted January 3, 2002 Hippie-- See what I mean.. It's a culture thing.. If management promotes a positive, customer-focused culture and then backs it up with real actions then your front-line employees will not only go along with you, but in many cases will perform above what you expected or even thought possible.. When you destroy trust, create bad blood and over-manage (or micro-manage) things then you are doomed to get poor results.. I'll say that when you run an operation the size of UA with over 100,000 employees spread around the world this can be very difficut to do.. This is why is why I say that carriers like Southwest/Midwest express/Jet Blue have a (size) advantage in that it is much easier to communicate your message to a smaller audience than a worldwide one (without loosing it's effectiveness or true meaning) I strongly suspect that 99% of UA's front-line employees WANT to do excellent work.. But they don't because they feel that: 1) thay are not permitted to do so, 2) feel they will not be recognized for it 3) feel they are not appreciated 4)their managers don't give them any support/training.. These are all faults of low and mid level management.. the fault of high level management is putting these people in these postions and not doing something about it. Look at your own experiences at AS... That speaks volumes about how to manage (or how not to manage) employees in a very heavy labor union industry.. Is some of the "poor service" issues sociatal? sure.. I think (and most people will agree) that americans, generally speaking, take a different view of service.. I think, IMHO, that service here is viewed as perfunctory, or basic. Where as in other cultures (asian as a good example) view it as an intergral part of the experience and equally as important as the product itself. Another issue is the generation... I think that service standards in the 50's and 60's was very different than today. Obviously it was a different time. The airline industry was nothing compared to what it was today.. The last point, the passengers.. I think that even thought as a general rule i agree with the notion of 'the customer is always right' .. BUT... i don't think this means that the customer can be a jerk.. Even if s/he gets bad service, why make it worse? again.... IMHO --UPSer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2002 Report Share Posted January 3, 2002 Midwest Express kicks ass regardless of who you ask. Southwest Airlines is the next favorite of buiness travelers. Business travelers account for more than 40% of travel on the five largest U.S. Carriers. Airline employees past and present always slam Southwest because everyone at Southwest respects each other and the customer is the first priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted January 3, 2002 Report Share Posted January 3, 2002 I'm not slamming Southwest or the people who work there. They have a great corporate ethic. I just don't like flying on them, that simple. I like to interline my bags, and I like things like picking my seat assignment etc... And frankly, in my case, I didn't find the savings that substantial. As I stated, I fly them a few times on short hauls only. Maybe on longer hauls, they do better. I can't say. As for Midwest I think everyone who posted on this thread agrees, they kick ass in a major way!!! Always have and hopefully always will! They are reminisent of what flying used to be like! a first class operation reguardless of what section you were in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 Hippie- I'm wondering if the smaller "niche"carriers in Europe (Ryaan Air, Virgin Express, etc) operate in the same manner and get the same type of passenger reviews. Also, I just got my January 2002 edition of "Business Traveller International".. It's their annual "Best of..." issue... A few "not a suprise" results... Singapore Airlines literally swept the "Best XXX Class service" awards.. Best Overall Airline, Best Business Class for International Flights, Best First Class and Best Trans-Pac Airline. A few "oh really" suprises.. Best White Wine Served=Thai, Best Overall Cellar in trh Sky=Thai... A few "we all knew that" results... Worst Overall Airline for International Travel = Aeroflot, Worst Airport for travellers = JFK A few miscellaneous awards.. Best Airline with Airport Lounges = United, Best Frequent Flyer Program = United, Best Airport = Singapore's Changi (SIN) Where did the UA place in the major awards? Overall Airline=#2, Best International Business for International Travel=#2, Best First Class=#3, Best Trans-Pac=#2, Best Trans-Atlantic=#2, Best Business Class to Canada=#3, Best Business Class to Mexico=#2 --UPSer PS: I'm not suprised at all by SQ's 13 year reign as overall #1, but I am suprised by a lack of showing by CX and JL.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shygye Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Old hippie: And frankly, in my case, I didn't find the savings that substantial. As I stated, I fly them a few times on short hauls only. Maybe on longer hauls, they do better. You get savings even when you do not fly Southwest. The majors will match Southwest fares where they compete. Case in point is SFO. Southwest use to fly in to SFO. I could get roudtrip tickets for about $230 from RDU to SFO from Southwest, Delta, NW, etc. After Southwest left SFO the prices jumped higher by 60%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 All discount airlines but especially Southwest create better fares for passengers in each market they serve. Shygye couldn't be more right on! The huge airlines raise fares every time they don't have enough competition. I would never fly on UA or AA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 Truth be told, I am like everyone else, I would fly on the cheapest seat available as long as they got me there. As an airline employee, I fly for next to nothing, or in some cases nothing, so I have a different perspective. But I have seen some appalling service in first class down to coach., for which there is no excuse. UA and AA do a decent job, it all depends on the flight crew, and their personnal ethic. For some reason, and I think many of us agree, the foreign carriers just blow it away when it comes to the level of service! I think it goes deeper than the corporation, as has been previously posted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2002 Report Share Posted January 5, 2002 Old Hippie wrote "UA & AA do a decent job". Q: Compared to who? Certainly not Midwest Express, Southwest, Eva or Singapore Airlines. Before the events of 9-11 airline passengers in The USA were nearly rioting in airports. This was to do so many abusive practices by the airlines. www.airmad.com (who ceased operation out of respect for the victims of 9-11) was growing at an unbelievable rate. Airlines have in recent years proven that they will use anti-trust immunity, attorneys and the hub system to further abuse passengers. The statement that UA & AA do a decent job is far from true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted January 5, 2002 Report Share Posted January 5, 2002 Point Taken! Although I believe the post read they did a decent job, depending on flight crew, but other airlines do a better job more concictantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2002 Report Share Posted January 14, 2002 Hippie-- My friend, who is our Station Manager in ANC, called me today to tell me about a guy who was forcibly removed from a CI flight from ANC to TPE last night. I guess he was not served a third pre-flight drink that he had requested, so he got up and broke into the liquor cart (breaking the seal) and removed a few of the small bottles. When the cabin staff told him that he would need to return them [and he'd be served once in the air] he refused and pushed one of the cabin staff to the point where she fell down. The pilot returned to the gate [tug was still attached] and a small contigent of Anchorage-based FBI agents and local law enforcement officers removed the subject (against his will). My friend tells me that he was shouting about his "elite status" with China Airlines all the way as he was led down the exterior starcase and into the awaiting FBI-blue Ford Econoline van. Never cease to amaze me how much trouble people are willing to get themselves into over the smallest of things! The man carried a Taiwanese passport. --UPSer [ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: UPSer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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