torrenova Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Dig beneath the US propeganda and you might find some clues. Get into Japan for a long time and work the subject from the inside and you may learn a llittle more. If all people do is sprout the texts of history books and believe what they are told and what they read then the system has won. If you do not question or challenge what you read and see then the system has won. Have you ever looked at the "innocent" Chinese ? Innocent like fuck. Neither were the allies, the germans, the russians or the japanese innocent. From setting up Pearl Harbour to Nagasaki the US machine attempted to control world opinion and blame everyone except themselves. It still does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 (not replying to anyone in particular) I wonder how many of our war historians here have taken the time to visit the Hiroshima Atomic Bomb Memorial Museum? The sight of skin dripping off young children should be shoved in the face of every politician before he says "Let's go to war." Then if he's still keen, tell him his own children will have to serve in the front lines as opposed to the "Officer's Club." The only thing any nation "wins" in war is the right to rewrite history and spread its own heroic propaganda. The Japanese government has failed the world and its people as it attempts to deny and rewrite history, but please don't blame that on the common folk. A senior Japanese friend once reminded me that, "Only 60-70 years ago, you could lose your head for not bowing at the appropriate time!" As a German girl I met on Samui once said, "Every nation has its historical period of shame." Look in the mirror before you start pointing fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 True Ropp. The Japanese regime during the war twisted and misused Japanese history and culture. The way they used it, was wrong. The reason they could do this, was that it had been neglected too long. Japan is a country with an intereresting history and past. Its a lot to admire there, and I don't share the "barbaric" view. I will watch a movie made by the master now, Kurosawa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbledonk Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Guys, Did we all read the 'no politics' rule ? I know I've been guilty of starting threads that went down this road, but I cant see that anyone wins in the end - we end up with various attempts at racial vilification (Jap-bashing, Chinese-bashing and Yank-bashing, for starters), and everyone gets worked up. Members who are normally very jovial suddenly start 'typing angry', and the whole 'Sanuk' thing goes out the proverbial window. In the beginning, I couldnt understand why KS discouraged threads of a political nature, now I cant understand why he tolerates them to the extent that he does. C'est la vie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 I don't agree Artie. This thread hasn't been that bad, nobody going loony. I think as long as people discuss civilized, its cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lazyphil Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 <<I don't agree Artie. This thread hasn't been that bad, nobody going loony. I think as long as people discuss civilized, its cool. >> When uncool then its lockdown time :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAL875 Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Roppongi-san - good points ? I was going to bring up the A-bomb sites but with different color. I did visit the tributes at Hiroshima and Nagasaki and ironically neither had a strong impact on me. In fact, I?ve been to Kita Kyushu (Kokura) the city originally targeted for an Atomic Bomb drop but cloud cover forced the engineers to change strategy. That place is a dump and could use an overhaul of sorts, even today (tongue-in-cheek). Equally, I did not feel any negative emotion or anger when I was in Chiran. What?s Chiran? It?s the town in Kyushu where the Kamikaze pilots were trained for their missions. Currently they have a fairly impressive memorial/tribute hall there dedicated to these pilots. Even though I am American, I found myself curious - not upset - about the displays. A good place to get insight on some of the Japanese perspective of what transpired sixty years ago. A site which did move me was Dachau. Something struck me ? I don?t know - perhaps the barbed wire, the barracks or even the chill of the cold winter wind blowing that day? left an impression. Guys, war is hell and like Roppongi wrote - Look in the mirror before you start pointing fingers. Even on this thread I found myself giggling out loud at the post which took a pot shot at the States ? sheesh who do you guys blame for all the shit that took place in the first seventeen centuries? No one nation is innocent or can be singled out in this ?game? ? each has its quirks. My suggestion to SOTH ? original poster seeking info on the Japanese ? is to get to Japan or any of the countries you are curious about and visit key sites and ask local people (tactfully, of course) their opinions. Older people tend to hold a treasure trove of information and quite a few are willing to share their stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 >>>>sheesh who do you guys blame for all the shit that took place in the first seventeen centuries? <<< the bloody french. who else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiLuk Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 >>The only thing any nation "wins" in war is the right to rewrite history and spread its own heroic propaganda. << I suspect that nations fighting for their survival would disagree (such as those who fought when the blitzkrieg was launched). Aggressive wars have been the norm for all of recorded history so lets not graduate to disarmament yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbledonk Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 the bloody french. As it seems that this thread will be allowed to continue, I'll throw in my two cents worth. I recently had a heated moment with a fairly pretentious young lady who insisted that the French werent arrogant, simply that they believed that life should be about eating and drinking with family - something which apparently the rest of us just dont 'get' ... 1. I think that the Spanish and the Italians, to name but two, demonstrate this approach to life as well as anyone, and they are just the tip of the iceberg in this regard. How many sane people wouldnt want to dedicate themselves to a 'life in the sun' ?? 2. The French 'eat, drink and be merry' types dont seem to mind bombing remote atolls in the South Pacific, or sinking Greenpeace ships in NZ - as long as it doesnt happen in their backyard, its all fine and dandy. This highlights the problem with targeting the negatives of a single nationality - I cant think of a nation which doesnt have skeletons in its closet. Perhaps some tiny island nation in the Pacific ocean remains blameless on the world stage, but they are about to sink beneath the waves as the polar ice-caps melt ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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