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And to think we ended the last century with a surplus. And in 2 decades have taken on so much debt that as far as I can tell from my own reading, we will never be able to pay it back and the powers that be know that. I'm not blaming Trump. Bush put us several trillion in debt with 2 wars and tax cuts that weren't off set. Obama put us farther in debt when he inherited a huge recession but also financed a national health care plan. It may have been needed but it may not have been the right time to institute it. Trump had promised to address the debt but has exasperated it. We wont' be able to pay this back. The government knows, the rest of the world knows and its the economic elephant in the room. The debt, among other things, will end America as the world's biggest economy. 

https://www.axios.com/federal-deficit-77-year-16fd4460-7ac0-4050-a42d-7d2b442533b0.html

U.S. deficit grew 77% in first quarter of 2019

 

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The simple answer is there are no serious ramifications or repercussions to being divisive, morally, ethically deficient politicians. On both sides of the isle, they get re-elected. To quote Shakespeare's Julius Caesar "The fault dear Brutus is not in our stars, but in ourselves..." 

There is a saying "ultimately, the people get the government they deserve". We do the voting as a collective. In theory we have far greater means to communicate with disparate peoples around the country via the internet, etc, and it's actually in many cases helped create chasms. In times of national emergency, like 911, it unites us but unless there is an external threat it just further disconnects us via ideology. 

My guess is we will come to a point and it will likely be too late at that point where we will be forced to come together. I'll use another well known quote by Churchill, "You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing...after they have exhausted every other option" That's going to be America. But it will be too late. I posted a long time ago, a video on the history of empires and we are showing all the signs of the last stage of an empire in decline. We are in the last stages. The most recent generations for the first time in American history will be worse off than the generation that preceded it. That can not be over stated. I love history. And we are seeing the same thing that happened to Rome. Debasing of the currency, low birthrate, continual foreign wars, breads and circuses (social, corporate welfare, Social Media, Hollywood, NFL, NBA, etc taking a prominent part of our lives). 

 

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Watching the impeachment hearings and Daniel Goldman's (lead counsel for the Democrats) testimony is particularly damning. Its not new info but he puts the timeline and chain of events into a cohesive and easily understood way. So damning. 

Anyone who says Trump is not guilty of this matter is doing so purely as theater. A blatant in-your-face total disregard for the facts. It's arrogant.  It's something one does whose goal is total domination of another. It's quite scary actually. The only reason Dems don't do it is they don't know how. You can't project power when you have no spine. Also, they have a fringe left niche of their party who will call them out. Unfortunately the Republicans only have two types serving now. It's not the Republican party pre 2016. It's Trump's party. He has co-opted and thoroughly (for the time being) ruled the party. Those that fear Trump (most of the Republicans) go along and of those, some try to do so with vigor to gain Trump's favor and the rest who go along but just enough not to be targeted. The other type is what will tear down this Republic. It's about raw naked power. It's seeing Democrats and liberals not as fellow citizens, but as those that need to be silenced by any means fair or foul because they truly feel those on the left truly hate the country and want to see its demise. And they use fringe leftists that the Democratic establishment doesn't support but rarely criticizes as representative of all Dems/Liberals. They see news reports of some kindergarten having a trans story teller (I've actually seen this) as represented of anyone who will vote Democratic, which is wholly not so and moderate, even left Dems don't like those things but the Trump right, the hardcore and even some of the rest see it as what the left wants the country to look like. They see Dems as an existential threat to life as they know it in America. 

In a nutshell, we are fucked. Thoroughly and truly. If there is an existential outside threat to the country as a whole it may bring about some unity...even if temporarily but as far as I can see the country is irrevocably fucked. 

What America will look like after the next economic crash which will also be a change in society in how we think and view things than before is anyone's guess but we will be weaker. I have very little doubt about that. 

And finally, I know with metaphysical certitude had a Democratic administration done the same exact things in the same exact way, not only would there been an impeachment there would have been far reaching, tangential investigations (rightfully so). The sheer and bold faced hypocrisy is depressing. 

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My advice for the Republican party. First of all they are amazing at politics. It's a numerical fact they are the minority party. If both parties have record turnouts the Republicans lose every national election. They have been saved by the Electoral College hence their grasping desperately to keeping it. But the fact that they have so many elections and had control of either half of the Congress the last 30 years or so attests to their skill at politics. 

Numerically and demographically they will continue to lose ground and will be seen as no longer a co equal party of power but the smaller of the two. If they were smart, they would look at the Nixon impeachment. They 6 years after impeachment they won the White House in a sweeping election by a wide margin. If they were smart, they would market themselves as the moral voice of reason for the nation by getting rid of Trump. The only way to combat the Dems numbers is to be seen as a better choice, especially ethically as well as economically. The Dems are not good at politics and that can be exploited but after this impeachment and the inevitable acquittal of Trump is that they can be viewed as ethical. Everyone knows Trump is guilty. What is going to be looked it is HOW each politician as well as their respective parties dealt with it. It's going to be hard to believe someone enough to vote for them, especially if you are a coal miner in West Virginia, factory worker in Michigan, farmer in Wisconsin if you know the person blatantly lied about impeachment. 

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Stephen Castor the Republican attorney is being questioned and being shown exact quote from Trump saying to look into Biden's son by name and then asking if the President said that, Castor said '...its ambiguous' He was stuttering and muttering and Gaetz kept interrupting the questioning knowing he was out of order. 

Its surreal watching blatant obfuscation and obstruction. The Dems interrogation is adequate...just...but its lacking frankly. Thereby emboldening the GOP...lol. It's tough being an independent voter. I have zero faith in Dems having the courage and backbone to do what is right if in power and the Republicans as they stand down, specifically the fringe right Republicans who hold a significant amount of power, are totally bereft of any iota of ethics. 

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I've been watching too, what I see is a well prepared bunch of Dems, admittedly boring, staid and process driven, but no bombshells, just, the typical constable's : "On the night of the 17th of June I was proceeding ..."  style of the reiteration of facts.

And the Republicans seem to be reading from the same one paragraph, nothing of which, in any way, defends Trump. Remarkable,  and the Republicans are talking very loudly, shouting almost!

---

In the school yard parallel - one group of girls standing on one side, and the other group of girls all wearing gold on the other side. The leader of the golden ones, Donna, is furiously smoking cigarettes, one after the other, smoke rising from her vicinity in a plume, she is joined by her BFF, Julie Annie...

The non-golden lasses are calling out the smoking.

Non-golden: "Donna, we can see you smoking and there's a huge plume of smoke above your head, you too Julie Annie...

Donna: "Yeah so? I'm Queen of the playground, I can do what ever I want"

Julie Annie: "Yeah so there see?"

Chorus of golden lasses: "This isn't even a playground, that's not smoke, those cigarettes are not straight, so they're not cigarettes. Any way what about Hermione at that other school, the one who's not even here, so there."

Teachers: "Donna and Julie Annie, stop that smoking now

Chorus of golden lasses:  "This isn't even a playground, that's not smoke, those cigarettes are not straight, so they're not cigarettes. Any way what about Hermione at that other school, the one who's not even here, so there."

Chorus of golden lasses:  "This isn't even a playground, that's not smoke, those cigarettes are not straight, so they're not cigarettes. Any way what about Hermione at that other school, the one who's not even here, so there."

 

And so it goes...

 

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One of the main Republican arguments is the Bidens were/are doing something wrong so illegally investigating them for it exonerates the illegality of how Trump did it. That's one of them in a nutshell...lol. 

 

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Ideologies often are like pendulums. They go too far in either way and take a while to come back to the middle. That's what Republicans need to think about intermediate to long term with regards to Trump. Trump may make anyone under 35 give up on the Republican party and the last thing I want is for one party to dominate. 

What may happen? Trump, a severe crash and not only the Dems gain the House, Senate and White House but the fringe left has the same power on the left that the Tea party had on the right but worse. A situation where Pelosi looks like Reagan to the far left. It can't happen? 

Flash brought up FDR a while back on this thread. What is never discussed is just how far left FDR was with regards to the society of that day. If you are in Kansas and a tornado flattens your town, there was no state and federal aid coming. That was the mentality. If you had a good relationship with your neighbors everyone helped each other. There was no social safety net. While we may like Social Security and all the New Deal benefits we enjoyed today they were seen as far left, almost communistic in that time. I'm commentating not on the policies being right or wrong but by how far beyond the scope of society at that time. It was novel and scary to millions. Also that the government was going to take money out of your wages and not give it back to you until you were 65 or so. It seemed like a scam to many Americans. In those days there were no bank insurance, FDIC so people saw things as tangible.If its not in my hand its a risk I don't want. The 'bury the money in the bank yard' was borne of those days because bank failures meant your life savings was gone.  So, actually trusting the government to give you back your money was seen as an outright scam. FDR forced America to change against their will for the most part. Because he had the anger towards Republicans to gain control of the government almost in totality.  

The same could easily happen if things play out and it will be far, far left. And it will take a long time for that pendulum to come back. The right will have such a bad reputation the powers that be at that time will totally disregard what they say Dismiss them out of hand and throw up Trump, the 'Freedom Caucus' and riddle off their ethics and morals as excuse to dominate them thoroughly and give them no voice. Even if you are moderate. Almost like France after the revolution. Any connection whatsoever to Louis XIV, no matter how tangential and you are not to be listened to. 

I may sound hyperbolic but I do believe if we get another crash it will be a depression and depressions bring out the worst of those who are in power as a answer to it. Just like how FDR tried to pack the court. The Dems enjoyed a run from 1932 to 1952, 20 years for one party due to the people blaming the Republicans for their misery. And the Republicans had no answer to the question of where you part of the problem? And even more importantly for voters. Why should we even listen to you? This is what Republicans stand to lose. Being considered at at all to lead. Because what will be asked is what did you do to oppose the blatant corruption from 2016 on? And finally, who ever is power has all the precedent acts currently being done now as a precedence for their own abuse of power. 

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Cav?  so in all of this, Ukraine still has had no meeting, Ukraine is one of the USA's allies.

Trump is shortly to meet the Russian Foreign MInister.  Not even Putin, Trump's been demoted to the number 2.

Who does Trump work for?

Next Trump will be meeting with Kim Jong Un's 2nd in command, the slightly taller and thinner one.

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