gawguy Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 I have hit the wall !! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: I have lived in LOS (Smiles!? Not today, Buddy!) for a total of 19 months. I go home about half the time. I study Thai at home a bit. Let?s say I?ve studied Thai for two years, give or take. I study on my own. I?m not immersed ? I don?t live or work with Thai?s or anyone else. I?ve been here three months on this stay. I?ve made a lot of progress. If I am controlling a conversation ? usually with a pooying ? I can get along pretty well. If they are used to funny-talking farangs, they can understand me. Oh yeah, it helps if they?re from Issan, cause that seems to be my linguistic center. (That?s another problem!) I can write Thai and now, thanks to Hudpim Typing Tutor, I can touch type a lot of letters. I can read a little bit, but really, there are too many words! But baby, I?m really stuck on some things! § - I can?t pronounce this!! Two years now and all I get is laughs if it?s at the beginning of a word like §èÒÂ, à ˧Ò, à §Ô¹, §èǧ ¹Ã¹ . Are there are others that had this problem but overcame it. This is a really common letter! How can I learn to say it? Help!! Syntax ? You?re kidding! I can?t learn Thai syntax. I think in English syntax, speak Thai words in something like the order I?m thinking, and I talk like an idiot. Here?s proper Thai: Could you open the door for me? ¤Ø³ ¨à ªèÇÂ à »Ô´ »Ãõ٠¹Õé ãË ˹èàyou will help open door this give please ä´é äËà ¤ÃѺ can I?m asking a question polite particle And yes, it has a most elegant flow to it when put that way. Rather than tackle the syntax, I would just put down whatever I was carrying, open the door, hold it with my leg while I picked up the stuff, go in, put it down, come back and close the door. Or say, ?à »Ô´ »Ãõ٠¤ÃѺ? in which case some amused or frowned up Thai person would shake their head and open the damn door, while thinking ?Raised in a barn, were you?? Tones ? I love the definition of mid, low and high consonants: ?These designations don?t mean anything, because they can all be pronounced with each others tones, just memorize them and shut up!? Thai people don?t know anything about consonant classes and tone rules. They?re too fucking busy talking to bother. From the earliest of ages of course. When I hear three year olds talking it kills me. They can say ?§èǧ ¹Ã¹? not that they ever will cause they don?t want to go to sleep when they can be jabbering. ?Stop it already kid! You?re making me crazy!? Just like when I was trying to learn the most beautiful of all languages, Spanish, I would hear those five year olds roll their rr?s like music. It was so elegant and SO painful to know that most of the things coming out of their mouths would NEVER come out of mine! :censored: I give myself some consolation. In terms of living here I?m only two. Maybe I know a thousand or two words (sorta ? I have to think about most of them before I say them.) I can say enough to find out all I need to know from a pooying I?m talking to, except I can?t question her about those elusive inner feelings. I can only say something rough like, ?You only want money, huh?? ?What do you think I want from someone who talks like a retard from the monkey house!?? Oh!! Can some of you fluent speakers help me! Please tell me you felt like this once. You were lost, but now you?re found. Speak before now you feel that same give me please polite particle! Crap! :help:Gaw Guy :help: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Jai yen yen.. Patience is the key. Yes I remember well, starting off and feeling that all my efforts were in vain as you often reach a wall and cannot see beyond it. Stick in there, chill, and feel good about how far you've come already. It can be frustrating.. I know all too well. But it appears you are taking the right approach early on in your learning which will be a good foundation for improving yourself in the language for future use. I think after I got past the 3 year stage I started bounding forward more.. and that was after 3 years of intermittent study and being immersed in the language also. Now I'm studying it full-time years later and still hitting walls occasionally. It's a slow process but very rewarding. Keep going. As for NGor Ngoo.. well, this causes me no problems and is a sound that ENGLISH uses, only it isn't used as a first consonant. It shouldn't be too much of a problem (It's the vowel 'ew' Ã× that has been my biggest problem or hinderance as far as pronounciation is concerned. It's not heard in English and you have to use your vocal muscles in a way that you haven't been accustomed to doing, but I'm progressively getting used to voicing this sound.).. ..Anyway, back to NG..Try saying the word 'Singer' over and over and then learn to drop the 'SI' from ther front of it. Think about what your tongue and throat are doing as you voice this sound. And then try starting a new word with this sound. Good luck. FF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibblies Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Says friendlyfiend: As for NGor Ngoo.. well, this causes me no problems and is a sound that ENGLISH uses, only it isn't used as a first consonant. It shouldn't be too much of a problem (It's the vowel 'ew' Ã× that has been my biggest problem or hinderance as far as pronounciation is concerned. It's not heard in English and you have to use your vocal muscles in a way that you haven't been accustomed to doing, but I'm progressively getting used to voicing this sound.).. ..Anyway, back to NG..Try saying the word 'Singer' over and over and then learn to drop the 'SI' from ther front of it. Think about what your tongue and throat are doing as you voice this sound. And then try starting a new word with this sound. Both paragraphs took the words right out of my mouth. Ng's easy. Wait until you come to 'ew'! :: I still can only pronounce that properly with a noticeable effort. I have to start gearing up for it at the start of a sentence and it's a real rip-roarer when it comes. Forget it if there's another 'ew' sound any time soon after - I'm too exhausted by that first effort to even attempt tackling it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markle Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 First off - give yourself a break you're undoubtedly more advanced than most other falang in the same circumstances. and if it's any consolationlearning Thai is like walking up a hill. Only when you get to the top you realise that the hill was merely a foothill of a ever upward range of mountains! At least you are nevewr satisfied with the level you are at and want to keep going. ngor ngoo well it wasn't such a hurdle for me and worrying about it won't help. With pronunciation it's a good idea to get to know how you make sounds - the relationship between voicebox, tounge, mouth and nasal passage. On top of the exercises suggested by FF try sounding 'n', compare it to 'm' then push the sound in the opposite direction, up through your nasal passage. Don't overdo it. keep your mouth still, it's not required. Syntax - forget it. As I used to tell my students, stick to short simple sentences and add the nicer embellishments as you get used to them. In youe example just say 'open door' then add 'could you' or 'please' or whatever as you feel comfortable with the new useage. Tones are best left to develop over time. You will get better at them, I did and I never paid that much attention to them. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legover Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 Hi Markle just out of interest what level of proficiency are you at with Thai, how long you been studying it, what were your best learning methods, do Thais easily understand you etc? cheers 3d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash999 Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 I'm not fluent by any means, though I can have basic conversations without much of a problem. I often get complimented for speaking clearly, but that's usually in a crowded bar when everyone's language seems to sound better. I'd rank my Thai as a solid 'intermediate'... Quite often Thais think my Thai is better than it really is and rattle on and on about some issue or another. I don't catch every word but sometimes I can catch enough of them to put together their meaning- so then I try to repeat back to them a summary of what they said to see if I got the gist of it. The way I learned to speak was trying and trying... and copying what I hear. I can't really read or write much at all. I find it doesn't help- as you mentioned, a tone is whatever you make it to be. Just because someone knows something should be rising tone doesn't mean that one can necessarily pronounce it. Kids don't learn that way- they learn by speaking, listening, and practicing. As for things like §, I don't really even think about it. Just practice the sound over and over till ya get it. For syntax, don't try to think in English and translate... just try to speak Thai, even if you get stuck. Work your way around blocks in the language using words to describe your meaning if you don't know the exact word you're searching for. Course... using Thai is a disadvantage at certain times. Young female Thai chicks like to practice their English. :hubba: Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gawguy Posted June 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 Hello Friendly, Markle and everyone, Okay...I feel better now. Just what I needed - a boost! Some therapy. It helps to know that the language is just one big wall, or series of bigger and bigger mountains. I don't acutally want to learn everything...if I did, what would I study? But nevermind, that's not going to be a problem. Okay... "sing, sing, sing, .ing.ing.ing,..ng, ng, ng" Thank you!! GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markle Posted June 3, 2003 Report Share Posted June 3, 2003 Says fripence: just out of interest what level of proficiency are you at with Thai, how long you been studying it, what were your best learning methods, do Thais easily understand you etc? My profiency fluctuates depending on the situation but I'm confident that I speak Thai fluently, read quite well, and need a lot of work with my writing (who doesn't) I've been speaking Thai for around 15 years. Learning by doing is always the best method and have fun doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gawguy Posted June 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2003 Also curious Markle, When you watch the news or political reports, do you understand ALL of it? When you watch comedians do you understand EVERYTHING? Or how much? What are the situations where you find the language to be most difficult? Just wondering how far one gets in 15 years? Thanks. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markle Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Says gawguy: When you watch the news or political reports, do you understand ALL of it? No not all of it but I usually get the general gist of what is going on and what the people are saying - which is why I need to start reading more to fill in the gaps. When you watch comedians do you understand EVERYTHING? Hell no especially when they start speaking in dialect and innuendo. Funnily enough I do understand the more modern, urban Bangkok comedians like 'Note' Udom What are the situations where you find the language to be most difficult? I find the language the most difficult when I have little time to think about it - especially when talking about complex subjects Just wondering how far one gets in 15 years? You get as far as you want. I regret not spending more time reading and writing and perhaps doing an advanced course of study. I also regret not getting my Thai recognised officially, I'm back in falangland now and have no way or really proving my Thai language ability. Thanks. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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