Guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 >>>So so! But thais migrated to thailand from south china!!<<< there are many theories about where thais migrated from. which has nothing to do with the fact that thais do not have an indigeneous teaculture. they don't. the only groups with teaculture here in thailand are the karen (and other tribes of tibetan stock) and the kuominhtang remnants who have built up teagardens in north thailand with the help of the taiwanese, only grow a few kinds of taiwanese oolong (started finally producing halfdecent quality a few years ago) and two kinds of very lousy green tea. i have studied asian tea since more than 13 years in depth, my teamaster is the formost expert on chinese tea in south east asia, i have visted most major growing areas in china many times, so please don't argue tea with me. >>>Please give any reference!!!<<< just read the chinese and japanese classics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 Says naiv: </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Sounds to me like SHEis not completely committed to giving up smoking and drinking. Giving up smoking, yes. Giving up drinking entirely, no. (I don't ask for that) </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Now I am sure if she is a social smoker/drinker then it really shoudn't be an issue as I am sure you can overlook it No, I can't!!! If she wants to be only a friend, then I can overlook it. But in the case she wants to be a GF, I won't accept that she smokes or is totally drunken. Best regards Drinking and being drunk are 2 entirely different things. So you are basically putting just as much pressure on her as her friends are, which of course is your right to do because that is one of the crieria she must meet in order to have a relationship with you. Poor girl has no one to turn too in her plight of what is acceptable drinking and smoking behavior,neither you nor her friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 Ok, flyonzewall, I won't argue about tea with you. Actually if you have read the article I referred to you would know that they talked about bowling water to desinfect it. I really don't care if the put some tea leaves in it or not. The point was that there was no alcohol culture in asia till recently. I am still waiting for any references!!! Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 Drinking and being drunk are 2 entirely different things. Yes, that's why I made this difference in my posts (I talked about drinking too much, i.e. be drunken) So you are basically putting just as much pressure on her as her friends are, which of course is your right to do because that is one of the crieria she must meet in order to have a relationship with you. Yes, it is a criteria, but I haven't told her because we don't have a relationship yet. Poor girl has no one to turn too in her plight of what is acceptable drinking and smoking behavior,neither you nor her friends. So why does she turn to me if she is unhappy when her friends press her to drink and smoke?!? And then even when she was drunken, I have never accused her because of that. You don't seem to understand that there is a difference between having a opinion and clearly stating it or tolerating that other people have other opinions. Or you seem to missunderstand tolerating with indifference. Tolerating doesn't mean that I don't clearly say that something is false in my opinion. You don't seem to believe me that I didn't press her for anything. (Do you think that telling her my opinion about smoking and being drunken 5!! months ago does still press her?!?) Sometimes when she drunk too much she calls me (don't know why, it would be much easier not to say anything, wouldn't it?). Then she used to tell me that she wasn't drunken, and I lied to her and said that I believe her.... Last week she admitted that she drunk too much. Which was also ok for me. So back to the topic: I assume that she stopped smoking and that she is drunken every 2 weeks or so. Which pleases me a lot. Actually I respect her for being able to reduce her drug consum because it shows that she is not addicted. But her friends don't want to accept this change. For me it seems as if they don't like that someone is able to climb a little bit out of the unhealthy BG world. And I was wondering if other posters had similar experiences, i.e. that the peers of BGs tend to do everything to prevent that their "friend" will leave their world. Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 >>>I am still waiting for any references!!!<<< i have already posted that you should please read the chinese and japanese classics - lots of alcohol mentioned there. in addition to that, a few links: http://www.warriortours.com/intro/alcohol.htm http://www.shanghai-star.com.cn/2003/0529/cu18-1.html http://okinawa.awamori.or.jp/english/ http://www.expeditionsmonde.com/english/asia/laos.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 >>>And I was wondering if other posters had similar experiences, i.e. that the peers of BGs tend to do everything to prevent that their "friend" will leave their world. <<< you have to start understanding what friendships in the BG world mean: friends are your surrogate family (and very often they are also their real family - cousins, sisters and other realtives from the same village). when a bargirls is broke she will be taken care of by that family, and in turn - when she has money she will have to take care of her friends. you are just another farang in their minds - you appear, have your fun, and after a while you leave. your girlfriend though is still there, and is depending on that support group. if you force her to leave that support group - you will have to commit yourself more than just 'lets wait and see how that relationship develops'. BGs have seen more than a few farang, and for obvious reasons do not put too much trust in us, which does not mean that they do not occasionally fall in love. what her friends do from their perspective is looking out for your girlfriend. i don't know for how long you have been with that girl, or how far your commitment goes. but don't expect that she will not have some serious personal conflicts when you somehow force her to decide between you and her surrogate family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think_too_mut Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 >What adds to the problem is that her friends know that she changed the behavior because of me. I think you are dreaming here. Why would she change anything? Because a distant farang with no commitment told her it's not good for her to drink and smoke? She does not give a toss. They hardly do that even in a much more serious relationship for a bg. IMO, what you are calling "peer pressure" is just not it. It's more likelly absence of any consideration for what you might think or say. Ocassional crying and blaming her friends for her drinking and smoking is used just for one thing - to keep you in an illusion that you have some say, that your worries for her well being are taken seriously...nice feeling, I think I know how it feels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Flys, I take your point, there is so much from that book that makes me cringe. I am not attesting to the validity of the whole thing, just taking a quote in context to illustrate a point here (Belgian Boy, I think that validates the discussion of that particular book here). I think we so often forget that the P4P scene is not Thailand writ large, but a rare case of two cultures meeting, nay colliding and spitting out a deformed hybrid. I stand by my original contention though that bar girls in particular do behave in a communal manner. When I worked in Greece many years ago with a bunch of young non-greek guys, we were in a similar situation. The new location and hand-to-mouth existance necessitated us living communally and relying on that social structure for our daily survival. I think at the end of the day we were little different to a bunch of Isaan girls taken out of their comfort zone, trying to make a living in a strange place. Anyhow, I digress. Cheers Jaga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 And I was wondering if other posters had similar experiences, i.e. that the peers of BGs tend to do everything to prevent that their "friend" will leave their world. --------------------------- really depends at what stage the girl is, in the BG environment. Lkke FlyW says, there is indeed a stage where the girl has integrated the whole BG culture, it's become her new life, and then will rely on on other people in that world for a support system. She may ask them for help, advice and also party hard with them (mind you, such friend can be a farang expat too). As far as substances, i do not think it is a path to destruction for most. What saves them is that this support system is always a moving target, a BG or other will usually, maybe, have one good friend she keeps for years, but the others usually come and go. I have known my GF for 3 years, every year, she has different friends, and as she gets older, less from the nightlife world. So I see that despite the be-friending, the support sysytem, these ladies realize they are actually on their own. In that sense, i don't think their peers have little bearing on them leaving the scene or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Says Jaganath69: I take your point, there is so much from that book that makes me cringe. I am not attesting to the validity of the whole thing, just taking a quote in context to illustrate a point here (Belgian Boy, I think that validates the discussion of that particular book here). Jaga, Of course it does !!! My point was that we all should try to compartimentise some discussions I'd love to hear more on tea in Asia as well as liquor abuse, but nor the 'relations' forum nor this thread on peer pressure does seem like the right spot to do so Cheers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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