samak Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 as far as i know, they have used in the past several scripts other than Roman. one under the influence of Arabic the other under influence form scripts found in south Indian region. major religion today on Bali is Hindu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markle Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 Yes the old Javanese script was certainly a derivative of Sanskrit, you can still see examples of it around the place. Let's not forget that much of Indonesia was Buddhist at some stage, with the largest Buddhist structure in the world at Borabadur in Central Java as evidence, and that Islam has only partially wiped out the Hindu/Buddhist heritage. That's another thing you learn with Bahasa, the similarities to Thai, given the Sanskrit roots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbledonk Posted August 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Thanks Markle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeng bireley Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Dont you mean "Anglophone" not "Anglophile" Not too many Aussie Anglophiles about ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbledonk Posted August 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Good point, Daeng, and it did occur to me - about 1/2 a second after I hit 'Submit' .... I dont even know how many English-speakers could be described as 'Anglophones' in the same way that many Francophones are passionate about their language. Basically, most of todays youngsters (bah humbug) will use ANYTHING that comes to their lips / typing fingers. Little buggers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiery Jack Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Says jp1: For Germans Japanese is easy to pronounce because they?ve more or less the same pronunciation rules. For native English speakers it?s much harder... Hmmn. Not sure if I agree with you there, jp1 ::. In fact, whenever I hear non-Japanese speak Japanese fluently, Germans are usually the easiest to identify or place (in terms of nationality) due to their unnatural pronunciation and clumsy accents (no matter how accomplished their vocabulary/grammar etc.). I can also usually successfully identify Korean and Russian speakers by their similarly oddly accented Japanese. Native English speakers (Brits, Yanks, Aussies) are harder to distinguish, more often than not having fairly "natural" Japanese pronunciation. (I'm talking about fluent speakers here.) There are no sounds in spoken Japanese that do not exist in Standard English, but there are (guttural) sounds in German that do not feature in Japanese and I think Germans tend to slip them in unwittingly when they speak Japanese, so it sounds odd. And I'm not having a jingoistic dig here. I had a German colleague who spoke, read and wrote probably the highest level Japanese I've ever known a non-native achieve . But his accent... Says jp1: ...even if you pronounce a [Japanese] word in the wrong way it?s still understood. I'd say that's debatable too: once you get to an advanced level of vocabulary and without context it's certainly not so. Watch the TV news debates. Japanese frequently mispronounce words (near synonyms with the only difference being syllabic vowel length) and are misunderstood or asked to repeat and clarify . Try saying the word "yoyaku/youyaku" (only difference is the short/long initial vowel sound) to a Japanese out of context and ask him/her whether you mean "reserve" or "summarize". They won't have a fucking clue, whereas in context there'd be no problem. Anyway, I wonder, can you guess a non-native Thai speaker's nationality from the way he/she speaks Thai? jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibblies Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 I remember reading that Japanese was the easiest language for robots to speak because of the relatively small number of different syllables. The real question is - which languages are worth learning? Personally, I rue the lost years spent learning French and Spanish when I could have been studying the 'babe' languages of Thai, Polish and Japanese.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiery Jack Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Says bibblies: I remember reading that Japanese was the easiest language for robots to speak... Shit, that explains a lot... jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 There are no sounds in spoken Japanese that do not exist in Standard English, but there are (guttural) sounds in German that do not feature in Japanese and I think Germans tend to slip them in unwittingly when they speak Japanese, so it sounds odd. And I'm not having a jingoistic dig here. I had a German colleague who spoke, read and wrote probably the highest level Japanese I've ever known a non-native chieve. But his accent... FJ, There are as well no sounds in Japanese, which do not exist in German. I have an American colleague over here. In meantime he became a Japanese citizen (yes, there are such guys around here). He speaks, writes and reads Japanese fluently. But from his accent everybody can tell that he?s of American origin. I'd say that's debatable too: once you get to an advanced level of vocabulary and without context it's certainly not so. Watch the TV news debates. Japanese frequently mispronounce words (near synonyms with the only difference being syllabic vowel length) and are misunderstood or asked to repeat and clarify. Try saying the word "yoyaku/youyaku" (only difference is the short/long initial vowel sound) to a Japanese out of context and ask him/her whether you mean "reserve" or "summarize". They won't have a fucking clue, whereas in context there'd be no problem. It?s understood within the context, even if it?s mispronounced. There are several examples where from the single word a Japanese cannot tell the meaning and asks for the ?Kanji?, that?s true. But then again, there is no misunderstanding possible if a word is pronounced with a long or short vowel in a conversation. This however, I was told, is possible in all tonal languages. Anyway, I wonder, can you guess a non-native Thai speaker's nationality from the way he/she speaks Thai? No, I can?t since I don?t speak Thai. But living in Japan and listening to different foreigners you cannot find out the nationality but almost always the mother tongue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 But then again, there is no misunderstanding possible if a word is pronounced with a long or short vowel in a conversation. ***** What about yokka (the 4th) and youka (the 8th)? Plenty of room for misunderstanding there. There are many more similar examples where I've made a fool of myself over the years. As far is it easier for Germans or native English speakers to sprechen Japanese I don't think it matters. I know many fluent speakers from both backgrounds. Just depends on the years of exposure etc. Back to the original question, Japanese (including writing and reading) ain't an easy langauge to master. Trying to remember how to write the little critters has cost me a few dreadlocks over the years. Writing Katakana is the biggest pain in the ass cause it follows no rules. Thank Buddha for computers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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