Do Foreign Men in Thailand have integrity?

[cardinalblue]

If one believes prostitution per se is wrong, then one receives low mark on integrity.

 

But is integrity really an all or nothing scenario? Can not people have a black mark or two on their slate if that is what prostitution is?

 

I will guess many many people on this board view themselves as having integrity. Yet, how many out there has never ever bar-fined a girl and gave her money for her services?

 

Is it really an all or none game?

 

I wonder who out there has absolutely no skeletons or hidden or known vices (drinking alcohol, previous or current drug use, watching porno films, having an affair with a company internship, using profanity, etc.)

 

Cardinalblue

[Guest]

Hi,

 

My answer would be the same as I gave in sister thread.

 

>>>I can't help but think, that it's the motive, that becomes the key factor in determining the integrity factor at play.<<<

 

I think a punter who is married/GF, and the deal is that neither are to cheat, and they do, without being honest, then I think integrity level is low. Same as telling a B/G you only care for her, and sneak out for a S/T while she goes home to change (of course she is probably busy putting a smile on hubby 'Somchai's' face, also.. :: ).

 

Conversely, if single, and honest to a bargirl (and other half, if there is one) then don't see a big compromise in integrity.

 

But here's the deal, in my eye's. I got nothin' to hide. I am single, and am an open book with B/G's. If I was with other girl last night, I will tell her. I'll show her picture of my daughter.

 

But *in general*, the B/G's job is to create the untrue/deceitful fantasy know as the infamous GFE. And is what gets so many thousands of punters in trouble. They believe the lies that are part of the B/G's job. To create a world in which she only loves you, and wants to be with only you. She will never be honest about husband,BF if there is one, money coming in from other punters, her regulars, constant emails to other punters, how long work in bar, how many customers the did last week, etc.

 

S/T and MP's I think are more honest, in the sense that there is little time for lies. They are after quick baht, and you are after quick lay. Up front, and honest. You will not often having one from that group say they love you, after 1.5 hours.

 

So...I think honesty, and lack of deceite, plays a big part in integrity. And doesn't really matter which side it is coming from. Punter, or B/G. It's all the same.

 

HT

 

[Guest]

Hi cardinalblue,

 

The integrity question is a hard one. Because it crosses lines with morality, and respect. I think integrity has more to do with being honest to yourself, and being honest to your morals, whatever they might be.

 

Cussing might be against your morals, but to find someone who had low integrity because they cuss, I think you need to know that they find it against their morals, as well. You might find their morals shit, and have no respect for them, but might be hard to attack his integrity, if he thinks cussing is OK.

 

Complicated issue.....my head hurting maak maak.... ::

 

HT

 

[pattaya127]

the B/G's job is to create the untrue/deceitful fantasy know as the infamous GFE

-------------------------------

I disagree with you (what else ?). most do not create anything. They are with you, period, then they are with someone else.

When they lie about not being or seeing or having another guy, it's the same lie a cheating husband or wife serve its other half, for whatever reason, mostly because it's nothing one has to be proud of, so why risk mentionning it.

Guys should be mature about the whole scene, and i don't think the percentage of clueless amorous punters is so high actually. Does not even seem to be one in the whole NanaP active board, everyone seems so alert to the possible schemes/scams.

Still, I find it an uninformed remark that there would be a group of S/Timers distinct from the L/timers who would be the dishonest ones only. They are all susceptible do STs and LTs in the bars/gogos.

There is a logic to how these girls work. They learn it, and it becomes second nature to them, the lies are part of the job, actually, part of any prostitution environment, punters included.

But if you see them act in their thai environment, back home, or in their neighborood, or with their GFs they do not need to fake and lie anymore, and may prove rather honest and thoughtful persons.

 

Depending on what farangs put in their LOS trips, they may get stuck with unperfect knowledge gleaned around bars, or get enough insights to hesitate judging a person by the idosyncracies of her working life. IME!

[Guest]

Hi p127,

 

I'm only addressing the integrity issue, not the overall B/G situation. If integrity is based around honesty issues, then many B/G's are sorely lacking, as well as many punters.

 

As I tried to state before, not to be confussed with morality and respect.

 

Telling your wife she looks beautiful with new haircut, when you think not, is a deceiving lie. But done out of caring. Integrity intact, IMO. Not hurtful........ Deceiving/dis-honest for personal gain, regardless of consequences to target, either regarding emotions, money, etc. is low integrity. A stock broker luring clients into bad deals is low integrity. A B/G luring customers into emotional relationships that she does not believe in, is low integrity.

 

The thing about integrity is that you can have it, or not, depending on the situation. Either can occur numerous times during the day. You can be non-ethical/no integrity in one situation, and them be highly ethical/much integrity the next.

 

Example is ripping off customer, and then going back home and be "rather honest and thoughtful persons."

 

While a B/G is taking a love sick punter to the cleaners, thinking little else other than her own needs, her integrity is shit, IMO.

 

<<<<<<Still, I find it an uninformed remark that there would be a group of S/Timers distinct from the L/timers who would be the dishonest ones only. They are all susceptible do STs and LTs in the bars/gogos. >>>>>>>>

 

I know this. But while doing a S/T, it is an honest business transaction, neither trying to fleece the other. The deceit issue is not present.

 

So...A B/G can do a S/T in the afternoon, no bullshit between either party. I think both sides have not lost integrity. Both are honest in their dealings with each other. "I fuck you, I give you xxx baht". "OK, I will fuck you for that". Integrity intact on both sides. :: Morality issues are a completely different story.

 

That night, girl snags a punter who obviously has fallen for her. Next 3 days with him, she lays a web of lies and deceit to snag him, doing what it takes for him to fall in love with her, giving little care about emotions of punter. She is after his baht, a house, monthly income, and security for her and family. She is only telling him what he wants to hear, for her own personal gain, just as the unscrupulous stock broker. Her integrity is shit for doing this, IMO.

 

>>>>>>>Guys should be mature about the whole scene, and i don't think the percentage of clueless amorous punters is so high actually. Does not even seem to be one in the whole NanaP active board, everyone seems so alert to the possible schemes/scams.<<<<<<

 

I think you got your head in the sand, my friend. Of course they are not on this board.....they only come here AFTER the disaster has occurred. :: The guys who post on this board make up a fraction of 1% of the punters out there.

 

All I am trying to say is that as a whole, I am suspect of the integrity level of the average B/G, because it is an integral part of their persona to create a false illusion, and lie their brains out, for personal gain, caring little what carnage is left by the wayside.

 

All B/G's???...of course not. I've had one tell me she was sucking on customers cock last week, and he came so hard, and she started laughing so hard, cum was coming out her nose... :: I thought she had great integrity. Morals is quite another issue though....... :: ::

 

And in keeping with this thread....Many punters lose thier integrity when dealing with prostitutes, also. For every punter sincere in his feelings, you probably have another bringing to the table, more bullshit than the girls could possibly ever come up with. Broken promises, lies, indescretion...... Hey....it's the world of prostitution....as a whole, I'd say integrity is not over abundant, on either side.

 

HT

[Guest]

Hi again,

 

>>>>I disagree with you (what else ?). most do not create anything. They are with you, period, then they are with someone else.<<<

 

Sorry...just re-read your post to see if I miss anything.

 

Ahhh...but they do create something. Lust, and subsequent illusion of love. Not a tangitable entity you ask? Just check the money flow from foreign suckers, into the Thai economy. It's the illusion that a Thai protitute is the exact opposite from what you say.

 

>>>>>>They are with you, period, then they are with someone else.<<<<

 

This is not the reality that brings millions to LOS. In fact, the opposite, is what has put BKK on the map, as the most vibrant sex capital in the entire world.

 

HT

 

[cardinalblue]

P127,

 

yes, you are correct. if we have to lie to protect something we are doing, that means it goes against the societal "norm" that prostitution is bad and of low integity.

 

I find it interesting that many girls say they make up stories to tell their family they are working some other type of job. They say their family would "kill them" if they found out they were working bar.

 

My take on this is some of the girls are telling the truth that this is deemed unacceptable social behavior. But some of the girls are actually lying to their customers about what the family feels because as we know many girls are encouraged and expected to go to BKK to work bar. I think the girls are embarrassed themselves if their family is one of these families that really don't care how they care make and send home money.

 

So the girl tells us that her family would "kill her" if they found out which is not true because the family really doesn't care but the girl cares about projecting a good/respected family image to us. Does the girl have integrity (even though she is lying about her family) but the family does not in this case? I think this true more than we want to believe....

 

Cardinalblue

[Guest]

I hope you are happy with yourself now.

[Guest]

Are you in a position where you feel you can, in good conscience, judge an entire group of people?

---

Yes, of course!!! Haha, and it has nothing to do with my integrity. To judge someone or something, you don't need to be "better". What is the logic? That if you want to judge someone as bad, you need to be good? So if you want to judge someone as good, do you need to be bad?!? That's just nonesense. What you need to be able to judge someone is:

1) a system of values (a measurement unit :

2) you have to be objectiv

 

It really doesn't matter at all where your position in this system of values is!!! If you are a really bad guy with no integrity at all, you can still say if someone has integrity. The only change is, that if you want to judge someone who is really far away from your position, then the error of classifieing this person increases (but you are always able to say if he has more or less integrity than yourself).

 

All this modern political correctness which wants to make us believe that we cannnot and shouldn't judge is nonesense. We have always judged and we will for ever. If I say that men are more aggressive than women, this is all but true. And of course I don't forget that this is a classifing statement which isn't useful to judge an individual.

 

Back to the BGs: There is nothing wrong to have the prejudice that BGs have less integrity than GTG. This just helps to avoid to be scammed. It doesn't mean that I won't change my prejudice once I will know a given BG better.

 

Best regards

 

P.S.: Does anyone understand what I am talking about?

[jitagawn]

 

1. Are bar girls sincere? I would say the majority are sincere. In fact I think that is one of the reasons we keep go back or live in LOS. It is also one of the aspects we dislike about western women is that they are not sincere. I think in BG what you see is what you get. I mean this on an individual basis. Some are better than others and some are great women. A few are bad. I would estimate that at least 85% of the girls are just trying to make a living, eat, support the family and their kids(s). I really don't think you see BG's trying to represent themselves as someone other than they are.

 

 

R Morris22...

 

Hm.. I tend to disagree with your perceptions of the BGS-

They are ACTRESSES and they are PERFORMING.

They paint a picture you want to believe .In general I do not believe they either enjoy or are proud of their current employment status-(which is why they lie to other)) This does not necessarily make them bad people of course but their circumstances require a certain level of deceipt and dishonesty so everyone can KEEP FACE. ::

Yes they actually like you? Sure...

::

::

 

I quote another poster Sir Cardinal Bird

"

But *in general*, the B/G's job is to create the untrue/deceitful fantasy know as the infamous GFE. And is what gets so many thousands of punters in trouble. They believe the lies that are part of the B/G's job. To create a world in which she only loves you, and wants to be with only you. She will never be honest about husband,BF if there is one, money coming in from other punters, her regulars, constant emails to other punters, how long work in bar, how many customers the did last week, etc.

 

IMHO I would never generally consider BGS to be honest -

 

LETS THINK ABOUT HOW THIS SOUNDS OK?Lets say this word...all together now.

 

HONEST-BARGIRL-

 

Truly seems like a contradiction in terms or oxymoron does it not?-

 

Sure there can be gems...and I am sure

this is what makes the discovery of a wonderful person working the bar such a mystery and delight-But the % is uh... rather low very low - I am probably being redundant so I 'll sign off-

 

Personally,since I live here I prefer girls who have day jobs-

mai tham gnarn glang keun

Much better odds and loads of fun-they are not as conservative sexually as so many of the board members believe -IMHO... Actually I am positive of this one ::