l's for r's

[mogul]

well, i guess your "cup" is just an aussie/uk interpretation. amerikans like myself say khap (cop).

 

and i guess merikan humor is different, too. i was being facetious when asking why not khlap (because l's are used for r's).

[markle]

this is a consequence of two language families colliding as it were.

 

THe Thai peoples coming down from the North or thereabouts most likely didn't pronounce the trilled 'r' sound but had a 'l' sound (actually it is not exactly the same as a Euro 'l' but similar enough. After the ascention of the Sukhothai court they adopted completely the Khmer Court system that they replaced, including many elements of the language. This is where the uppper lower class divide occurred with the courtier class speaking with a heavy accent on the 'r' sound while the common population continued to corrupt them. As Thai society became less stratified and the common population better educated this became a clear sign of class distinction but the common lazy 'l' are winning through sheer weight of numbers.

It's not only newsreaders. Virtually all singers will prounounce the 'r' correctly.

A new trend is the influence of Western born/raised/educated Thai celebrities/actors/singers who don't pronounce the 'l' but aren't good enough to pronounce the trilled 'r' so end up using an English 'r' which is also incorrect but oh so cool

[markle]

as for the Khrap thing.

What you'll find is that it's because the 'r' is part of a blend - two consonanats together 'k' and 'r' which Thai's find difficult and consequently drop the 'r' sound happens with most blends with 'r' and 'l'

eg Kung Thep not Krung Thep

Pa not Pla

gup baan not glup baan

and so on

[mogul]

markle,

 

my gf says krung thep, not kung thep. but then she's been in amerika for several years.

 

interestingly, when talking to other thais, she says kolat; but when she talks to non-thais, she says korat (trilled). go figure. ::

[Redbaron]

I was refering to how the THAI's say 'khrap'. I've never heard the 'r' pronounced.

[Guest]

Not the same: Japanese has no L sound, only an R sound (or perhaps more accurately more accurately, an R-like sound).

 

Thai has both sounds.

[Goodthaigirl]

Hi,

 

It is hard for Issan and Northern Thais to pronounce 'r' as their local dialect doesn't have the 'r'. For example, Issan people who use dialect similar to Lao doesn't have 'r' so the work 'pratet Lao'(in Thai) = country of Lao, the Issan people/Laotians write and pronounce as 'Patet Lao'. So it is hard for them to pronounce the 'r' so they just drop it. For them it is correct. But for Thai language it is not.

 

This correct pronunciation is a big concern for the educators. They have been trying to tech young Thai in school to pronounce correctly. But the media sometimes falls to help it. For example, pop singers always pronounce Thai words like English word; เธอ or You in English is pronounced using 't' instead of 'dh'.

 

That's why I don't listen to Thai popular music. It's crap and annoying !

[samak]

in isaan/lao there are "r" that are just simply not pronounced (where r is combined with a other consonant) and "r' that turn into "h" or "l" (where consonant stands alone with the vowel).

examples for not pronounced r

p®athet

p®ik (chili)

k®athiam (garlic)

 

examples for r turn into h

koi hak djiao (i love you)

hoon (warm)

hoo (know)

 

for a lot of words in thai containing a r, the isaan/lao word is totally different like

aroy saep

prungni mue uen

arai jang

etc.

[samak]

KhMarried said:

Not the same: Japanese has no L sound, only an R sound (or perhaps more accurately more accurately, an R-like sound).

in Korean there is one character, that represents something in between L and R; transliteration is varying accordingly and sometimes a mister Lee is also a mister Ree

[samak]

mogul said:interestingly, when talking to other thais, she says kolat; but when she talks to non-thais, she says korat (trilled).

even i am non-thai, the BG's scream kola! to me and not kora!, but that doesn't thrill me