Retirement

[Guest]

Absolutely great perspective Artiew. I am coming to grips with that right now. I mean, do I want to live life trying to appease corporate America, two weeks vacation and nasty attitudes? Or do I want to take a chance and actually LIVE A FUCKING LIFE AND SEE SOME THINGS IN THIS WORLD? I choose number two. I am single and no kids (thank god). I can do what I want when I want and I may make some drastic decisions soon. However, life may be very harsh to one who has not planned correctly. The main idea is to try to build up a nice amount of money so that even if you only spent the interest you would be able to live comfortably. That amount for me would be no less than $300,000 US. If you invested in tax free municipals paying about 5%, you would be able to live at least a "decent" lifestyle in Thailand, especially upcountry. Now what if you got very sick and needed a kidney transplant etc... Well, what if you got hit by a bus tomorrow??? At some point in your life you have to stop selling out and start selling IN... I will leave off of this quote which sums things up quite nicely...

 

To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen, who play with their boats at sea - "cruising," it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about.

 

"I've always wanted to sail to the South Seas, but I can't afford it." What these men can't afford is not to go. They are enmeshed in the cancerous discipline of "security." And in the worship of security we fling our lives beneath the wheels of routine - and before we know it our lives are gone.

 

What does a man need - really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in - and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That's all - in the material sense. And we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention from the sheer idiocy of the charade.

 

The years thunder by. The dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it the tomb is sealed.

 

Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?

 

by Sterling Hayden (1916-1986), sailor extraordinaire

 

Oneye

[BelgianBoy]

oneyejacks said:

What does a man need - really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in - and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That's all - in the material sense. And we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention from the sheer idiocy of the charade.

 

I agree with your post, but disagree with your needs.....

Intellectual stimulation needs to be on top of my list as well.....

 

BB

[Guest]

" Intellectual stimulation needs to be on top of my list as well..."

 

Yes... travelled quite a bit for the sake of it and feel bored with it now, personnal opinion only but need to see some kind of business interest in it to move on.

Happily places like Brazil, Colombia, Myanmar, Lebanon and mostly Thailand have lots of it :hubba:

 

AP, trying to fit Prag and Ukraine in the picture

[Guest]

Not my post, its Sterling Haydens! As for the intellectual stimulation. How about books, a home computer or laptop, maybe cable tv with the discovery channel? I get by quite well on those right now... I need those along with my six feet and one pound of food. The quote was meant to be thought provoking, we can all find ways to tailor it to our own needs but find many ideas we can use within it also...

 

Oneye

[Guest]

You need to refine your financial plans.

 

1. Muncipals are only free of state and local taxes, not federal tax. If you are living in Thailand you would expect not to be subject to state or local taxes unless, for some reason, you choose to maintain a primary residence (more than 180 days per year for NY state) in a State with an income tax.

 

2. You would have a hard time getting 5% on your money in the present market without taking on some risk. The 10 year bond rate is currently 4.4%

 

3. Unless you renounce your US citizenship, you will still have to pay federal income tax, but that won't be much on less than $15,000 per year, but you would feel it.

 

4. Unless you die young, inflation will make you poor over time. The US CPI for the 12 months ending June, 2004 is 3.2% The conventional expectation is for it to increase in the coming years, but 3% is a reasonable number for the purposes of projection. After 20 years a 3% annual rate of inflation would reduce your capital to a value of $164,000 in today's dollars. That means your real income would also be cut in half. To earn a real rate of 5% you need to get a nominal rate of 8, roughly. Thailand's current inflation rate is less than the US's.

 

The usual hedges against inflation are working for income and owning property, neither of which you would have apparently.

 

5. You are assuming that the exchange rate remains attractive for US dollars versus the baht. Thailand currently has one of the fastest growing economies which may be expected to drive up the value of the baht over time. The US dollar, on the other hand, has lost 20% of its value against the euro in the past two years, although it has not lost yet against the baht. Some observers expect the dollar to weaken further in the future, but it's hard to know. What is sure is that exchange rates are more volatile than inflation or interest rates and more important for the overseas retiree.

 

I am no expert, but I would give your plan maybe a 10% chance of success. I am not at all unsympathetic to your goal, indeed I am frequently reviewing my own possibilities in this regard, but it looks harder to pull off than it may seem at first.

 

The main difficulty with such a plan is that recovering from a financial setback would be very difficult without a job, property or currently marketable job skills.

 

If you decide to live for the present that's fine, but you should understand the risk that you would be taking.

 

Khun Pad Thai

[Guest]

I am going to answer each point categorically and specifically.

 

Yeah well, thanks... ::

 

Oneye

[gobbledonk]

Hi KPT,

 

You've thrown out exactly the kind of argument that the 'wealth creation' industry uses to ensure that their coffers are continually being topped up by middle-age anxiety. I'm not arguing with your figures - they may well be conservative, if anything, re. the dreaded inflation, but with the approach that one needs $US1 million to cease fulltime work. None of us has a crystal ball, and the ultimate 'plan for the future' would probably involve building a bunker in some isolated part of the country and stocking it with tinned goods and ammunition ..........

 

I agree that having a house *is* a great hedge against inflation, and that having *some* form of income is important on several levels, but how many of us will stay in fulltime employment well past our 'use-by' dates on the elusive promise of a 'comfortable' retirement at 65 ? On the other hand, if you already have significant assets at 50, then what the hell are you waiting for ? I'm seeing too many people selling the home they've lived in for 30-plus years to shuffle off to a retirement home before their 70th birthdays - screw that !

 

I also take the point that constant travel can also become tiresome (not to mention expensive) - thats not what I'm proposing, although what each board member plans to do on retirement is entirely up to them. I guess my approach is a fatalistic option, but none of us are getting off this planet alive - seize the day, Amigos.

[Guest]

Artiew,

 

I fully confess to middle-age anxiety. I see my parents who are in their 80's and in good health running out of money after a lifetime of work. They spend a modest USD 20,000 per year to live in a Boston suburb and have to tap the equity in their house to maintain that. Using their equity is fine with me except that I expect it to run out before they both die. They have no other way to get money at this time in their lives, except to be supported partially by their children when it comes to that, much as they will dislike it. I don't want to be in that position and, anyway, don't have any children to fill the gap.

 

What is the alternative to the arguments of the 'wealth creation' industry that you reference? Who will bail us out when we come up short? Not the governments, in my opinion. I would stop working tomorrow if I could, but not to cross my fingers and hope for the best.

 

Oh but we do have a crystal ball. We can see the broad outlines of the future, if not the details. The societal cost of retirement for the baby boom generation will be too much to bear. First world societies (governments, corporations) will substantially renege on their commitments and the boomers will experience an unexpectedly lowered standard of living, including poverty in many cases.

 

My own strategy, at least for the present, is to keep as many options open as long as possible. This includes continuing to pursue a career (IT, as it happens) for which I no longer have much enthusiasm, but also starting to learn Thai for a possible retirement transition in a few years.

 

Good luck to you Artie. I have often appreciated the thoughtfulness of your posts, especially the dilemma with your Indonesian girlfriend.

 

Khun Pad Thai

[torrenova]

I'm 35 so some way off the official retirement age but in the UK, 51% taxation (40% tax plus 11% NI after about 30k per year), plus local taxes (Council Tax) and sales tax (VAT) just about eats up what the average joe earns. I'm lucky I lived in Asia but cannot feed a government which does not even allow me half what I would earn. If I stayed in the UK, I would have to work forever.

 

So I've dropped out. Sold up, moved on and left the rest of them to work out how they are going to pay the bills. Sure, not everyone can do that but in retirement, I think a great many more people will look to move to countries which can offer a better standard of living at lower cost.

[spirit_of_town_hall]

Your right, for sake of argument a pension of 16 000 pounds per annum in the UK wouldnt go that far, even assuming mortgage is paid off. 16 000 in LOS is 1,200 000 baht per year. Enough to live well and enjoy some sanuk. Not much sanuk in the UK for that amount.

 

STH