Farangs Targeted by Immigration Police

[Guest]

It seems the crafty buggers are going to introduce the ID card soon, at a cost of £100.

 

I see absoltely NO reason for this to be implemented. The major criminials are the ones that the Government wants to crack down on by making the ID cards mandatory...these are probably the same criminals who will be producing good quality fakes!!

 

Also, the UK government has a poor record of the implementation of mass computer systems, so this is bound to spiral out of control

 

I agree with you 100% here - prevention of Terrorism, my arse.

 

At least now they are talking about one of the real reasons for the card (apart from Govt's always wanting control and information) which is to "prevent" identity Fraud. This could be useful, but unfortunately it just won't work - for the same reason as current identity checks do not, namely that once the card is widely used and requested by everyone and their dog it will be worse than useless as it will become an additional tool for fraudsters.

 

Effectively we are going to be asked to pay £100 (just watch this figure rise!) to help the banking sector save money and APPEAR to be "fighting the Global War (on Terror)". (I beleive that these are people behind this and I would not be surprised a few IT companies gagging to get on this gravy train)

 

The "problem" the banks have is actually not giving a f#ck who their customers are - In my experiance the most effective way they could prevent fraud is by NOT sending my data and account details to third world countries, to be accessed by very bright folk earning peanuts, often with freinds and relatives back in the UK. (this is without anyone having unauthorised access to the data - but in the usual course of business)

 

The second reason is that once the system is in place, it will become easy for the government to build files on everyone. Scary thought for me, even though I have nothing to hide :: - I am sure their are those who could also make a rational argument for web cams at home and tracking devices (although we already have mobile phones to do this)

 

It used to be somewhat amusing to read about the East German Stasi having files on each of their citizens - "foreigners" eh!

 

"Of course" it will not be compulsory to carry the cards at first, for inspection on demand. But within a few years of their introduction it will be. Remember the "promises" about DNA testing and the keeping of test results when it was introduced?

 

You are apparently going to have to register each time you change address as well!

 

But then again I remember when having the "right to silence" and jury trials were just assumed to be unassailable. Even before detention without trial, in jail and mental institutions.

 

"Courts without Juries, for Trials without evidence" :: :: ::

 

My prediction is that ID cards will become another Poll Tax - Unfortunately "Trust me" Tony Blair will be long gone by then - hopefully someone will have shot him ::

 

ooops - this subject has touched a nerve! :D

[Guest]

Getting somewhat back on topic (and I admit my own fault in the thread drift), does anyone know the particulars of which bars have fallen out of favor and are targets for raids and which are not? And why? (Simply because they are patronized by Farangs doesn't seem to work).

 

Probably not practical to get up to date information on this sort of thing (and who knows if the information is reliable, unless I recognized the poster from prior posts as a credible source), but after my experience of several weeks ago at Q Bar I am bit gun shy about discos now. At best, when a police raid happens it is incredibly inconvenient and ruins the entire evening. And it only goes down hill from there.

 

Because of that experience, I haven't been back to Q Bar, which is shame because I like the place. I like the layout, and they make good drinks. I also like Club Mystique. But I certainly don't like having my evenings ruined by compulsory participation police fund raising events.

[shygye]

Go to the bar owned by the son of a hi-so.

[chelseafan]

Khun_Kong said:

Dude_Le_Rude said:

 

 

forgive me, the law states official ID. for visitors, a passport. for residents, driver's license, or other official forms of ID, for Thais their identity card. but, legally, something MUST be carried at all times. ....

 

Might you reference where that law is found? Have you actually seen it?

 

In answer to your question, I cannot find a reference about having to LEGALLY carry ID, however, the UK Foreign Office do state "By law, tourists are expected to carry their original passports at all times in Thailand." which to me is still not clear, if its law then surely tourists MUST carry passports" friggin Government ::

Anyhow, this advice is good enough for me, however, like most of you, I dont bother carrying it with me when I go out. The chances of you being stopped by the BIB are (for me) less than that of losing the blasted thing.

[jxxxl]

Gadfly1 said:

Getting somewhat back on topic (and I admit my own fault in the thread drift), does anyone know the particulars of which bars have fallen out of favor and are targets for raids and which are not? And why? (Simply because they are patronized by Farangs doesn't seem to work).

 

I don't think it's a stretch to assume they [thai police] are trying to catch illegal farangs and are too stupid to understand what this could do to tourism. I don't think the Thai government cares one bit if foreign residents are harassed or made to feel unwelcome in their quest to enforce the policy du jour. Stupid I know, but we discussed this in the Thailand and globalization thread.

 

I get the impression many governement campains are launched on a whim without a lot of thought being put into the repercussions. Can you think of a few recent events that fit this pattern?

 

This is not a loaded question: how could the police really crack down on illegal farangs without pissing off the farang community and touristsf? I do agree that raiding a place like Mystique has a lot of collateral damage.

[Guest]

I don't think the Thai government cares one bit if foreign residents are harassed or made to feel unwelcome in their quest to enforce the policy du jour. Stupid I know, but we discussed this in the Thailand and globalization thread.

 

I get the impression many governement campains are launched on a whim without a lot of thought being put into the repercussions. Can you think of a few recent events that fit this pattern?

I agree 100% that many campaigns are launched on whim without much thought. I also think that many campaigns are not really what they purport to be; that is, that they serve other agendas. In some cases it as simple as diverting public attention from other scandals.

 

You are probably right about foreign residents. On tourists, and the whole "quality tourists" issues, it's a mixed bag. Many in the government realize the tremendous economic importance of the whole nightlife industry to Thailand's economy. Occupancy rates in Phuket hotels are now averaging 20% (down from over three times that amount this time last year), and there is definitely a desire to attract more tourists back in Phuket. Meanwhile, the closing times in major Patong beach discos are now 4 or 5 am. Someone figured out what I alway saw as an obvious connection, and saw the economic importance of changing policy. Or powerful local interests who always knew the connection pushed hard for the change.

 

On the other hand, there is infighting within the current government between various factions, and some of those factions derive income from the nitery industry and some do not. Complicating matters further, some groups are ascending in power while others are declining. My hunch is that much of the loosening we are seeing in Bangkok now is a result of this rather than any deliberate policy.

This is not a loaded question: how could the police really crack down on illegal farangs without pissing off the farang community and tourists? I do agree that raiding a place like Mystique has a lot of collateral damage.

Perhaps you will catch a few illegals at the cost of pissing over several hundred legimate visitors and residents, but a more fundamental question is why would they want - at this particular time when the economy appears to be slipping a bit - to crack down - particluarly on a place such as Club Mystique with its high cover and relatively affluent customes? I still think this was a revenue enhancement measure rather than a calculated policy by higher ups. Just as the "war on drugs" was often used to settle personal scores, I am sure the immigration police wouldn't hesitate to use any campaign to crack down on illegal foreignors (if there is one) to make a few extra Baht.

[sfinkz]

"...why would they want..to crack down...with its high cover and relatively affluent customers?..."

___________________________________________________

 

Being the "in" spot is a fickle scene. It has been suggested that Mystique is a "hi-so" environment. The crackdown is a function, by definition, of such a society.

 

Having the baht in pocket for cover does not qualify for membership. It seems all such places follow an inevitable path. Once the 'buzz' wanes, access is loosened. And farangs attract freelancers like light does insects.

 

The list of such organizations excluding me is impressive. If I were on one of their 'A-lists', however, I would greatly resent the presence of foreigners, with a proclivity for attracting the wrong element, simply because their money is worth more.

 

I suggest it is merely an attempt to maintain exclusivity.

[Guest]

I suggest it is merely an attempt to maintain exclusivity.

Interesting theory and there certainly are places that try to stay exclusively Thai, but they use less draconian methods to do so, such as telling farangs at the door that they are not welcome. Having your club raided by the immigration police to rid it of unwelcome farangs doesn't seem like a very effecient means of maintaining exclusivity. It also generally seems bad for business.

 

Q Bar and Club Mystique are also very popular with wealthy Thai Indians. (As many here probably know, our favorite playgrounds in the Sukhumvit area are largely owned by Thai-Indian (mostly Sikh I believe) families that received generous land grants from the Thai King of what was then not very valuable land generations ago.) The children of the wealthy Thai Indians in this area are often very sophisticated, wordly and well educated (e.g., Harvard, Berkeley, Oxford) with very western appetites - much more so then the children of weathy Thai-Chinese. Pure speculation, but I wonder if that has anything to do with it?

[rogueyam]

"does bakchich mean bribe in english too?"

 

The dictionary I have on hand, Merriam Webster's Collegiate, lists "baksheesh," which is defined as "payment (as a tip or bribe) to expedite service." From Persian, first English citation, 1775.

[STDAY3]

I believe it is from Arabic or Persian Origin meaning Freebie.