Another for Prof. Scum

[Guest]

Originally posted by elef:

"... But Bhagavadgita 200 BC ..."

Elef, I have to take issue with that date. Let me explain:

The Bhagavadgita is part of the epic Mahabharata (its sixth "book" or chapter). The beginning of the Mahabharata does indeed go back at least 200 BC; yet, in later centuries the it was continuously amended and the final version was only completed around 500 AD.

The Bhagavadgita itself, as it is in use today, was only completed in the 3rd century AD; its rudimentary structure may have been established in the 1st or 2nd century AD.

Many Hindu scriptures were amended and altered in this way, often over centuries and by many different authors. Another example is the Ramayana, of which there are many different versions - a North Indian, a South Indian and a Nepalese one, as well as several regional versions. The Bengali Ramayana is particularly adulterated.

The Thai version of the Ramayana, called Ramakien, seems to be based on a South Indian (possibly Tamil) variant.

[ July 16, 2001: Message edited by: Scum_Baggio ]

[Guest]

Originally posted by micsnee:

"The reason for my interest is that the original swastika symbol is used in Japanese maps to denote Buddhist temples. I don't know if the same symbol is used in other Asian countries, perhaps China or Korea?"

Have you ever seen the symbol of the Falungong movement? It's an Indian-type swastika (called "wan" in Mandarin) surrounded by four Ying and Yang signs.

[ July 21, 2001: Message edited by: Scum_Baggio ]

[Guest]

Originally posted by HongKongBoy:

"The hotel logo was, you guessed it, a swastika. I wonder how many German and Israeli tourists have stayed there."

Both would have been deeply disturbed. I have observed many shocked German tourists, who'd seen swastikas on Indian temples or as ornamentation on sarees. They often don't know that the swastika is older than the Nazi movement.

Many Indians on the other hand are proud that "their" sign has made it all the way to Germany. Hitler is a very popular figure for many Indians ("the man who made Germany great"), and I've been asked many times to bring copies of "Mein Kampf" for some.

Most Indians on their part are confused to learn that the book is banned in Germany and that there is not a single momument to Hitler in the country. I've seen several advertising campaigns in India in which Hitler look-alikes were used to promote the products in question - it's a strange world, isn't it.

[ July 21, 2001: Message edited by: Scum_Baggio ]

[Des]

To the estimable Scum_Baggio, I had no idea the Hindu extremists were so, well, extreme. I checked the website you recommended, sword of truth, and it's shocking. And to think India has the bomb. I'm afraid, very afraid.

[Des]

Oh, and by the way, I'd like to echo Arai Wa and others here in saying that I am also deeply impressed by your level of erudition in these arcane but fascinating matters. I originally came to this board for a few vicarious sexual thrills but have stayed for the wide-ranging insights into Thai and Asian culture by you and many of the regular posters.

[Guest]

Originally posted by HongKongBoy:

"I checked the website you recommended, sword of truth, and it's shocking. And to think India has the bomb. I'm afraid, very afraid."

Rightly so. There is a sentiment among many (fanatisized) people in India to "get rid" of the Pakistan problem once and for all. And that of couse means the Bomb!

Of course, they don't really ponder the whole horror that a nuclear war would imply.

Maybe this kind of attitude is founded in the Bhagavad Gita, which is set during the battle of Kurukshetra and in which Krishna instructs his charioteer Arjuna to just fight - fight without thought of the outcome. A warrior has to fight and leave everything else to a higher power.

Luckily, there are many very intelligent people in India and they loathe these fanatics as much as you do. You should read up on Indian message boards what young urban people think of the Shiv Sena and the other fundamentalist outfits - with that kind of abusive language they'd be banned from Nanaplaza in a jiffy!

P.S. Thanks for the above laurels. I just saw that post a second ago.

[ July 21, 2001: Message edited by: Scum_Baggio ]

[elef]

Hi,

the world is really a powder barrel today. Many predict a north-south world war III. In India, Afghanistan + many other arab states and Africa we find religious fundamentalists. Such people think the US is the devil and all white people his representatives on earth.

Environmental imperialism is also mentioned as a way of suppression.

The racist movements in the west (often using old hindu symbols) are doing their best (worst) to build up the same opinion.

So we can identify the counterparts in the future conflict.

 

Après nous le déluge!

elef

[ July 21, 2001: Message edited by: elef ]

[Guest]

Originally posted by db_sez_aloha:

'I wonder if the Sanskrit word is old enough to have informed the Greek concept of "gnosis" or as Merriam-Wester puts it, "esoteric knowledge of spiritual truth held by the ancient Gnostics to be essential to salvation", and by derivation our modern word "agnostic"'.

I'm no expert on ancient Greek, but I strongly suspect that "gnosis" is connected to Sanskrit "gyana" (knowledge, wisdom, insight etc.). And "a" of course is a prefix denoting some sort of opposite, a "negator" if you will.

I have to be short, as I''m off to some less cerebral activities. More later.

Cheers, SB.

[ July 21, 2001: Message edited by: Scum_Baggio ]

[elef]

Hi db,

1000 BC is the start of the era of the kings (read the Kings), but ok maybe we can let Hinduism start at 1800 and Judaism at 1200.

1200 AD - maybe Shintoism represented by the era of shoguns (I don't know enough about Shintoism to say if this is correct).

1800 AD in that case could be represented by the new Mormon church.

Regards

elef

[ July 21, 2001: Message edited by: elef ]

[Sukhumvit]

Could be lots of reasons for the decline of the importance of organised religion and thus the lack of new major religions starting up, (apart from the likes of silly cults like Stargate, Cao Dai, Moonies etc).

The past couple of hundred years have been dominated by the development of new socio-economic movements. Way back when, the educated elite controlled the unwashed proletariat with the party line preached from a pulpit. With more widespread education, the printing press and dissemination of info via the new mass media then perhaps religions began to lose some of their shine?

Someone here will probably know the rough dates for the historical period referred to as the Age of Englightenment when French philosophers began to question the divine right of kings which influenced the Jacobins to incite the sans culottes to overthrow the French monarchy in 1789. Of course there had been the earlier example in the colonies and Britain's own parliament had pissed all over Charles 1 in the previous century. Who knows the real seed which germinated in people's minds to allow them to question government's/monarchies?

Course we've also had the industrial revolution without which Karl Marx wouldn't have been able to formulate his theories and turn educated yoof onto commienism. And we all know where that ended up.

This is a vast subject and without several years to spare not a subject that can be done justice to here blah blah blah...

(Having just re-read the above it looks like a load of old toss. It's Sat lunchtime and obviously my blood sugar levels are low. Must eat. I'm gonna post the above anyway and don't care if I get flamed so there. )