Farang phuut passat Thai reu plao, k-?

[Lamock Chokaprret]

I have been learning Thai over the course of the last eight months or so and have made some progress. My g/f understands me mostly but I'm not sure everyone else does. I'd say about 50% of the people I speak to understand what I'm trying to say. The other 50% have some difficulty for one reason or another. My question relates to the approximately 20% of Thai people I encounter that have no clue.

Occasionally I'll encounter a person that simply has no clue what it was that I just said to them. Let me add I do normally remember to add the polite particles, etc. They typically look out into space or stare right through me as if I was really from Mars.

I've been arguing with a farang buddy of mine regarding this behavior, with my position being that some Thais (probably those with little contact with farangs) simply don't expect a farang to be speaking Thai so their visual context conflicts with what they are hearing. They think they are hearing some foreign language so are unable to discern the Thai words.

My buddy's position is that the visual cues have nothing to do with it and that I'm simply pronouncing the language poorly or with a bad accent that is inhibiting their understanding. While I don't discount the possibility, I say the evidence is against this because at least 50% of the people I speak to do understand me. I will add that I take great efforts to make sure I'm using proper tones, sentence structure, etc., at least to the extent that I know to do so.

I'm really at a loss to account for this reaction. I should add that my g/f will hear me say something to someone in Thai, observe the response and then act infuriated later over that other person's lack of ability to understand me. She says my pronunciation and grammar is very good. Clearly I should at least partially discount my g/f because she's probably used to my accent by now. Nonetheless, the reaction is disconcerting.

So my question is, how many of you farangs out there that claim fluency still run into this sort of behavior? And what of it? How do you account for it? Who would you say is closer to being right?

My buddy also says that the reaction of simply ignoring you rather than requesting a clarification is simply in the nature of Thais. Avoid the confrontation / insult of suggesting you speak Thai badly. This I tend to agree with.

Any insights from people with experience would be appreciated.

[Guest]

However well you speak Thai you will always have this problem. Some Thais take the attitude that farangs cannot speak Thai period. Nothing will convince them otherwise.

Its irritating but you just have to get used to it.

[Guest]

Strangely enough, the person who has the hardest time understanding me is a Thai friend who has lived in America for 10 years. I also know a farang who speaks much better than I and he also says he occasionally runs across people who seem not to understand a word he says. Besides accent, remember that Thai being a tonal language somewhat analagous to singing; if you are not hitting the notes, the song may be unrecognizable without some imagination within the listener.

[daeng bireley]

Be patient, 8 months is not long to have been learning thai. Most good thai speakers have been learning for many years.Farangs I know who speak good readily understood thai have been learning for many years.

[Guest]

Lamock -

If you grew up speaking western language(s), it's somewhat foolish to expect 100% of your audience to understand your Thai with only 8 months of practice, given the tonal characteristics of the language, unless you are extremely gifted in linguisics and/or have remarkable abilities in mimicry.

Your observation about your girlfriend is correct in that most couples, after spending enough time together, develop communication patterns unique only to themselves. Once I was watching TV with a Thai/American couple who had been married close to 30 years. When talking amongst themselves, much of what they said was beyond me. It almost seemed like a mixture of sorts, their own private language.

Like the other posters have indicated, if your tone and pitch is not exactly right, you'll confuse your listener. Once at our temple I was asking my girlfriend why she was painting everyone's face white (Songkran Festival). She couldn't understand me because I was saying "nah" the wrong way. As soon as I said "nah" with the falling tone, her face brightened up and she understood.

As for the 10% who refuse to speak to you in Thai, just accept their prejudice as their problem, not yours. In the book Tai-Pan, I remember reading about an American businesswoman who was furious because the bellhop refused to understand a Chinese phrase she kept saying, even though she said it perfectly. Sure the book is fiction, but that encounter is probably something Clavell had experienced before. You'll never change such people, so do what the Dharma teaches, and just stay the hell away from them.

[Lamock Chokaprret]

pjacktpa said:

quote:

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She couldn't understand me because I was saying "nah" the wrong way. As soon as I said "nah" with the falling tone, her face brightened up and she understood.

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I too have experienced this. I whole-heartedly agree that one tone can make a difference between understanding a sentence and not. At least it seems so.

In "THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THE THAI LANGUAGE"

by Stuart Campbell and Chuan Shaweevongs they make the statement:

quote:

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In only relatively few cases will a wrong tone cause you to be misunderstood

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with which I only partially agree. They go on to say that grammar rules are more important in that many listeners will be able to guess the appropriate word in context even if the tone is wrong. I believe this to only be partially true. Some listeners are probably more sensitive to the tones (just as some people are able to carry a tune and others not).

quote:

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Be patient, 8 months is not long to have been learning thai. Most good thai speakers have been learning for many years.Farangs I know who speak good readily understood thai have been learning for many years.

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True enough I suppose. I'm still learning English after 43 years.

[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: Lamock Chokaprret ]

[daeng bireley]

thats very true about words being understood

from their context. Some areas of thailand have different tones for some words, and they dont hsve any trouble understanding each other. The problem is most likely with the sentence construction.

[Guest]

farang phuut phasaa thai "dai" rue plao...

[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: noo6 ]

[Crash999]

quote:

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Originally posted by Lamock Chokaprret:

...Occasionally I'll encounter a person that simply has no clue what it was that I just said to them. Let me add I do normally remember to add the polite particles, etc. They typically look out into space or stare right through me as if I was really from Mars...

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If you were standing in line at the immigration department, I must inform you that this is their natural disposition!!!

Actually, I suspect that it's got something to do with pronounciation. Just as we come to understand Thais speaking broken English, they come to understand foreigners speaking broken Thai.

Tooting my own horn here, I'll say that I get a lot of compliments on my Thai. Thais often remark that I speak very clearly and ask how long I have been staying here. What they did not add was the unspoken (...for a farang). I still get the occational person who doesn't understand me, especially on the phone and especially (for some reason) if they are ethnic Khymer.

Another possibility is that they didn't want to answer you at all. I've had this experience with taxi drivers a few times. While some will talk to me freely, others will not even acknowledge my destination. It isn't limited to foreigners, either- I was in a van the other day with some Thais from work. They were trying to ask the van driver if he had the correct map for our destination. Silence.

Cheers!

[Guest]

It's not the same as the other way around. We get used to people from all over the world butchering English, and we adjust our ear and make an effort to understand what they are trying to say. We get used to the common mistakes and allow for strong mispronunciations and accents.

Thais simply aren't used to people speaking their language anything other than correctly. They're not used to mistakes, wrong tones, poor pronunciation, and their ear can't adjust.