Guest Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 I don't really know where to begin, so this posting will be somewhat of a ramble. Actually, I am little hesitant to post anything about this because I am not sure I want anybody knowing, but if I don't talk about it, I think I'd go insane. Anyway, here it goes: I met a girl. A normal girl. I know, I know. We've all heard about the normal girls as opposed to bar girls, but yes, this one is really different. I met her through this communication medium called the internet while I was in the death throes of my last long term relationship. If there is a tell-tale sign that a relationship is in trouble is when you start scouring the internet for girls. But, that is beside the point. Well, personally, I could have not asked for a more perfect woman. She is educated. She works at a university in Thailand as an "ajarn". I am physically attracted to her. She is an intellectual and can speak perfect English. She has been educated abroad and plans on continuing her education. She does not ooze of whore at all. On our first date, she paid for the coffee and last night she paid for an expensive dinner at a trendy farang restaurant. Unbelievable or what? As a little aside: while I was walking to the gym the other day I noticed a paradigm shift in my life. There is a life outside Sukhumvit and the whole prostitute/bar scene. I actually started to feel shame about living the life I had led before. Not so much the morality aspect, which I don't really give a shit about, but the fact that I could really being doing something more productive with my life, that I could actually have a life with people I enjoyed being around and have normal relationships. In my opinion, thriving and being part of the bar scene in Thailand starts to dull one's senses. The irony is that once you get here as a newbie your senses are so overwhelmed by everything. It is a sensory overload; then when you are here a long time, it is like you become part of the walking dead. It kind of reminds me of Las Vegas, hahahaha. Intellectually, I always knew there was something more to Thailand other than the bar scene, but when you live on Sukhumvit and have been part of it such a long time--at least for me--it starts to become normal, perhaps banal and mundane, and what is normal, conventionally, seems refreshing and exciting. Also, being part of the bar scene makes one jaded about all relationships, whether conscious of it or not. I have been jaded by stories guys have told on this board even though nothing bad has really happened to me. Again, I intellectually accept that these bar girls work for a living. I have nothing against that, but when you are part of the business, part of the transaction, and you are dealing with human intimacy, such as sex and the other little intimacies that separate Thai prositutes from other prostitutes(I don't know about "other" types of prostitutes, but I am making an assumption), things get blurred. Does the girl really like you or she in it for the money? If your girlfriend is no longer a prostitute those lingering doubts always exist even when she makes it clear money is not an issue. Further, even though she may no longer be a prostitute any longer but continues to be part of the "scene" in terms of a social circle and entertainment, it can be quite heart wrenching as well. And the opposite can be true as well. I am not a hypocrite. If you met your girlfriend as part as a financial transaction, you are pegged as one who fucks girls for money. And the prostitute girlfriend knows that you may find somebody sexier and kinder than her, and as long as you got the money, the new girl will be willing to go with you. I believe that even if both parties are sincere in their fidelity to each other the relationship will always have the whore/punter cloud hanging over their heads. In other words, it fucks up everybody's head a bit. Now, what is so refreshing about dating a "normal" girl is that none of this baggage exists, except in the jaded sub-conscious. It is great. But, what do you tell your new girlfriend about your past? What about your nightlife? Personally, I feel guilty about it. It is like living a double life. I know that some guys on the board don't give a shit and I am being a bit sensitive about it, considering that this is Thailand and that Thai men, for the most part, lead double lives as well. Thai women are not stupid also. I suppose that this guilt is part of the paradigm shift, perhaps it has something to do with finding an exceptional woman and falling in love. Well, this new woman in my life is going abroad to get her Ph.d. It is required for work and she received a full scholarship. She wants me to go. Part of me says that I should go. I am fairly wealthy and I sort of live a gypsy life anyway, so the actual move itself would not be a big deal. Part of me says to stay here and continue to meet new women and enjoy the single life. I just got out of a relationship and now I want to jump into another one. I ask myself, Am I crazy? My integrity tells me to let her go, because if it doesn't work out I might distract her from her studies and I could never forgive myself if I did something that prevented her from reaching her goals. I say this because I know Thai women and they are pretty intense when they fall in love, even to the point of being psychotically dramatic. And if our relationship fell apart, I know for sure it would effect her work. On the other hand, my heart tells me that this might be the one for me and to let her go might be the biggest fuckup of my life. I don't know why I am writing this here. I rarely post at all, but I have been around a relatively long time on the board. I have been in Thailand over 3 years now. Some of the long term expat guys will remember when I started posting on ASFO a couple years ago and I suppose I am going through a period of personal growth and I am documenting some impressions here. It would be cool to hear some comments, because in a way, I feel that my story, my dilemma, is quite a contrast to the horror stories one hears all the time. Thanks guys for allowing this forum to exist. Late, Raddemo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 George Harrison once said everybody loves a seeker, but no one loves one who has found. Now, you seem to love the search, but don't really care about the find. A bit of an emotional gypsy, too, eh? You seem to have found a great woman - go for her. She probably won't even mind learning about your past escapades, as Thai women expect nothing else from men anyway. They don't mind a man being a jau-choo if he's not in a steady relationship, but don't go galavanting if you're committed to her. Congrats, SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awayguy Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 My few cents: There's nothing wrong or unusual in feeling a little jaded with the sanuk scene. And nothing unbelievable about meeting a Thai woman who will treat you to a meal. However, just because this woman has all these wonderful attributes - the job, the education, the looks, the money, the perfect English - it does not mean necessarily that you will get along with her in the long term. You need to get to know her (obviously) before you can make a comitment to her, but of course this is much harder to achieve with a non-scene Thai woman who will probably not be prepared to live with you before that big commitment. My advice (for what it's worth). Pursue the relationship, but don't move with her, or move in with her, too soon. Use you wealth to visit her frequently. Keep quiet about your nightlife activities (past and present!). It's the Thai way. Don't be persuaded to take her out to the bars however curious she is. The less she sees and knows, the less she has to think about (when at some point in the future you may have to work late at the office, or entertain a client!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinsin2 Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 Raddemo Newbie Member # 459 Welcome to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 quote: Originally posted by sinsin: Raddemo Newbie Member # 459 Welcome to the club. "I don't know why I am writing this here. I rarely post at all, but I have been around a relatively long time on the board" As you can see I wrote that I rarely post. This board is fairly new. I was out of town when it was created. I was part of the old Delphi board. I don't know why you had to make an unnecessary jab at me. In three years, I am probably one of the few guys who hasn't changed his user name. I am sorry I don't post as often as Bangkok Phil or Wild Alaska to get out of newbie status on this board. Paw jai mai? Late, Raddemo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickman Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 Nice post Raddemo. I think there are a few different issues here. I have a British friend, very wealthy who comes out to Bangkok for a few months each year, I guess he spends about 4-5 months a year here, the remainder in the Midlands in the UK where has a nice house, a couple of Ferarris (yes, really) and most of the luxuries that one could ever dream of. Financially, he is totally set, and he has yet to hit his 50th birthday. His attitude is that the Bangkok that a single man gets to know is not the real world, but if you spend too long here, it starts to feel normal - and with this perceived normailty comes a huge paradigm shift that quite frankly can mess you up. While he spends 4-5 months a year here, he never spends more than 6 weeks here at one time, before returning to "normality" as he describes it. A couple of months in Blighty and back he comes, and so the cycle repeats itself. I think you allude to this in your post, how the goalposts most definitely shift if you stay here a while - and how Bangkok can change you. In terms of what you should do, I would say that you should wait and see. From your post it appears that you have not know this new lady too long yet. Give it time and see how it goes... Moving to the other side of the world for a girl - and seemingly nothing else (although other advantages no doubt exist) is not a good idea IMO. If you WANT to go where ever she is going for a variety of reasons then great, do it. But if she is the only REAL reason to go, then Ithink you'd be mad to move. Whatever you decide to do, good luck! Â Cheers, Stick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whosyourdaddy Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 [Quite a few guys our age get jaded with the bar scene. Most of my expat friends who have been her as long as you have, feel the same. Myself included. We are young and still have what the women generally want. So we dont have to have to rely on the pros to get some thrills. I am sure you will find the educated motivated women more exciting and interesting than the pros. I guess it all depends what country will she go and study in, I presume a western country. Could you live in a western country again? High prices, rules, weather , etc..??? Just some things to think about You can always come back to thailand when you are 70 years old and enjoy the girls instead of sitting on the porch and going to feed the birds in the park. They will still be here. WYD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 Ask yourself: is it really *this lady* that's motivating you, or is she symbolic of getting out of a scene you are starting to tire of in various ways? That paradigm shift you wrote of may be telling you something in terms of personal growth and evolution, and if you make dealing with that secondary to your relationship with this woman, it may come back to bite you both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyfarang Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 Rad- Good thought provoking post. For me it boils down to the age old choice: The sanuk and excitement of being on the hunt versus the stability, safety and other rewards of a long term relationship. I, for one, regret the time I wasted on my last long term relationship, but it might have turned out differently. I tend toward the "have your cake and eat it too" school of thought. Many such people have the mia luang and sanuk on the side, or a mia noi, or both. This may work for some, especially when the mia luang consents, or doesn't care if the husband is discrete enough in his pursuit of sanuk and supports her (and her kids) well. This situation is probably more common among Thais when the marriage is arranged, and not a love match. I personally don't like any deception at all in my relationships, so this probably wouldn't work for me. I would prefer something akin to the Mormon system of polygamy where I would have several sister wives living under the same roof and getting along together sharing me. In this way I could satisfy my desire for variety and still have real long term relationships. Maybe this is just a pipe dream from my exposure to the "unreality" of Bangkok, but I will try to make it real someday rather than give up my freedom. The "senior" wife would have veto power over allowing the subsequent wives to move in, and I would support them all, and still pursue sanuk in a very limited way. Of course this would probably not work with an educated upper class woman. Your dilemma is classic: Is this woman worth giving up your personal freedom to play the field? Freedom vs. relationship. There is no correct answer, and it would all depend on how much you value your freedom and what point in life you have reached. And do you want children with her? I used to want a relationship with just one woman who could be an equal partner intellectually, financially, emotionally, etc. Now I have changed to cherishing my freedom above all. This change is the reverse order most men progress, I think, and the end result may be loneliness. I think you received good advice already, recommending to stay put and visit her often. By the way, I don't think Sinsin was being sarcastic when saying "welcome to the club". I think he just meant that many others share your dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinsin2 Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 Originally posted by sinsin: Raddemo Newbie Member # 459 Welcome to the club. Apologys Rad. I had no intention to jab/smart ass you. I am the same as yorself at times a very infrequent poster. I remember your many thoughtful posts from the old board, where for a long time I was a lurker.... the same here. What I meant by" welcome to the club"was some one else a long time in the scene suddenly floundering outside it". See thread on Thai mothers. Good Luck [ August 02, 2001: Message edited by: sinsin ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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