Law firm recommendation?

[BelgianBoy]

Tasman said:

I was only joking really but maybe he can handle a property purchase - I couldn't see an email address on his 'contact details' but I may call.

 

His name is Ben Yardley - doesn't sound very Thai - do you know where he is from?

 

Cheers,

Tas

looks like an Aussie flag to me on one of those pics.....

 

BB

[rickfarang]

This fellow wrote my will for me. He seems to be pretty good. I accidentally overpaid him by 1,000 baht. A couple of days later, he sent email and a check. He's getting my business in the future.

 

HUTTE & DHIRA

Attorneys-at-Law

 

DHIRA YOONAIDHARMA

 

25 Bangkok Insurance Building, 20thFloor

South Sathorn Road, Bangkok 10120

Thialnd

 

02-677-4050

fax 02-677-4055

 

dhira (at )hutterdhira.com

 

www.hutterdhira.com

[-.-.-]

In my experience the falang law firms charge anywhere from ten to fiteen times what a pure Thai law firm would charge.

 

Don' be shy about being very clear on the pricing- they won't be shy about all the billable hours necessary for "research" by both "senior" and "junior" partners to come up with that single sheet of paper that they pulled out of a computer and had the secretary slightly alter before giving it a quick proof read.

 

The English MAY be a touch better with the international firms.

 

A nasty little secret that nobody wants you to know is that falang cannot practice law in Thailand.

[Bkkbound04]

Mr Ben is indeed Thai, I sought some initial advice from him orginally re a divorce and he put me onto Siam Law office who did the business very well for me.

I remember walking past one day and just popped in to ask advice, that little cabin is fascinating, I managed to squeeze in and sit on a stool, had a lenthy chat with him, hes a very friendly and knowledgeable guy. If I remember righly he has a pic of himself recieving his law degree from one of the senior royals hanging amongst the junk.

He was very keen that when I found another girl to marry go back and see him as he felt I would have problems getting another visa, I have'nt yet found that girl!

I had the distinct impression that anything was possible with him if I would pay a price, legal niceties would'nt pose a problem. If he didn't have the answer he knew a man who did.

 

I don't think I'd use his service for a house purchase though.

 

JP

[Guest]

suadum said:

Original poster: sorry for the hijack, but this is too much fun.

 

Some Mr Ben's pix:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

SD

Sure, and grab up a few Soi ZERO Darlings to top off a bad deal!

[Guest]

Here are a few suggestions.

 

First, I agree with Himtsu that you should not be shy about asking about fees.

 

Second, I disagree with Himtsu on one subject: Farangs can be very valuable. Remember that you are not simply paying someone to simply buy property or set up a company. The most valuable service you are getting is the most intangible - balanced and honest advice that you can understand. We use law firms all of the time, and I find that the quality of advice varies tremendously - and often the most valuable part of the service is getting advice in practical terms I can understand.

 

Third, let me come back to my point about "honest" advice - or to put it another way: be careful with local local law firms, particularly in resort areas. I have already and separately posted here about how an ex-girlfriend introduced me to a Thai lawyer in local local law firm as part of a scam; he never mentioned that he was her cousin. (I suspected you would get disbarred for what he did in the US; here it is par for the course.) I know others that have been scammed horribly in Phuket, Koh Samui and Pattaya with local local firms when buying property. Obviously not all Farangs are honest, but to put it quite bluntly, there are differences in standards between small local firms and big international firms. They aren't going to risk their reputations over a property acquisition for a Farang; a local firm, well you never know. But, of course, there is a difference in costs.

 

Fourth, shop around. I suggest you talk to at least three different firms before deciding. And make it clear up front that you are just shopping so you don't get charged for the first meeting. To be fair, you can keep the meetings short. And ask about hourly rates and estimates. After you go to three different places, you should have a much better idea(certainly better than you will get from inquiring on this board) of who you feel most comfortable with. If you are still not sure, check out a few more firms; make a serious investment of time into making this decision.

[Guest]

A fifth and final comment: Farangs seem to get in the most trouble here when they decide to do things the "Thai way". Thailand seems like the "wild east." They've seen friends get ahead out of traffic problems - that might cost hundreds of dollars in the US - by slipping a red 100 Baht note back to a MiB. There told, "don't worry about zoning restrictions, building controls or [insert problem here], I have a [good friend, cousin, uncle in the Land Department [insert appropriate official here]] who can handle it."

 

They are new to Thailand, this "advice" is consistent with the sloppy cultural relativism that passes for open mindedness ("When in Rome, do as Romans do...") and they buy into this nonsense. And they get burned badly.

 

Farangs are not Thais. Those officials are involved in corrupt acts; what makes anyone expect they'll keep their word? They have already proven themselves to be crooked. Even if they do, officials, even cousins, get replaced. There are scandals here involving corruption, and officials do get rotated to "inactive positions" (but no one seems to sacked here) where they can no longer provide any protection.

 

Now getting back to the original question, I see a serious problems with local lawyers in resort areas, or even local lawyers here in Bangkok, that provide services based on this sort of influence - purported or real - with local officials. This kind of crap seems to really impress Farangs; makes them feel like their also hot shit. They are getting a special deal that is not available to other Farangs; their above the law because they have "friends in high places." And in the beginning, maybe the first year or so, when the money is still flowing or fresh, it will seem that way.

 

But what they don't realize is that they getting themselves into a world of shit. Because once they cross the line, and head down that slippery slope, they are also fair game, and it will damn well impossible for them to legitimately complain when the officials start to enforce the rules they way they are supposed to enforce them. What are you going to do? Scream and yell about the bribe that was paid the last offiical to avoid this problem - you won't get much sympathy from anyone. Point here is to excercise a bit of commonsense, and realize that you are vulnerable, and that an honest and straight lawyer - particuarly when he tells you to walk away from the deal that seems to be too good to be true - is far better bet than a local fixer. Avoid the fixers.

[-.-.-]

As usual I agree with Gadfly- even when that is disagreeing with somethiing I posted.

 

Perhaps some clarification is in order from someone who has been up and down that slippery slope more times than he can count.

 

In my experience there is nothing more irritating than a falang lawyer who has to turn and ask a secretary. YES, A SECRETARY, a question about a basic point in Thai law during a meeting.

 

In general, my experience has been that the falang lawyers are here for the sole purpose of marketing to falang.

 

I think that the acutal level of the falang lawyer here is horrible.

 

Having said that the advice part can be very helpful but I would estimate than less than 10% of the falang lawyers here know enough to actually be in a postion to give advice.

 

But they will still give all the advice you want and charge New York rates for it when the staff doing the actual work make maybe ten percent of what they do.

 

Completely agree about the points on resorts. Having said that I know one falang law firm- that shall not be named by me- that is doing things right now that would result in prison time in the US.

 

Shop around for sure.

 

Don't beleive me- see how often they have to turn to the support staff or other Thai lawyers.

 

The best advice you will ever get is to go the best Thai freind you have in the biggest company you know of here and take the in house lawyer to lunch. You may be shocked at how different the advice is and how they came up with something in seconds that it took the falang lawyer many hours of rersearch to come up with.

 

All for the cost of lunch at the Dusit Thani.

[-.-.-]

Rereading the above I wish I could give better advice on a lawyer for a house purchase.

 

Shop, shop. shop..........

[Guest]

Having said that I know one falang law firm- that shall not be named by me- that is doing things right now that would result in prison time in the US.

Is it in Phuket? I will keep this very general because it is all hearsay, but apparantly there is a very expensive condo project in Phuket where the developer steers prospective Farang buyers to a law firm that has a Farang whose basic function is to hold the Farang's hand when signing the contract and making the deposit. What he doesn't explain - perhaps because he doesn't know or doesn't want to know - is that the Land Department issued an order prohibiting the registration of any transfers with this condo project.

 

I heard all of this from a Farang lawyer I know in town whose firm represented a prospective buyer. When they told the buyer all of this, he didn't believe them and, at first, wanted to go to the firm that the developer had recommended. But he calmed down, and walked away from the transaction.

 

I don't see this as a Farang vs. Thai thing. Rather, it is about conflicts of interest. The basic model here for land transactions is a one stop shop that does everything and represents everyone - that is simply a problem waiting to happen. Take a look at the signs at some of the store front operations in Pattaya, Phuket and Koh Samui; these places offer everything from title searches to foot massages.

 

But seriously, in western countries you generally have checks on conflicts of interest. Here, the concept doesn't seem to be as well developed. It seems to based more on an expectation that you need to find a good person and he'll do the right thing. But in my experience here (and everywhere else), if there are no checks on rip-offs, rip-offs will ocurr. Yet somehow here in Thailand, people - Thais and Farangs - ignore this pretty fundamental feature of human nature and are surprised when frauds and scams happen.

 

You see this at all levels of society - from lowly real estate/foot massage companies in Pattaya to the highest offices of goverment. The idea of checks and balances - something you generally learn in your junior high school civics class - just doesn't seem to sink in here. It is all about whether someone is Jai Dee and Jai Rai. The fact that we are all Jai Rai if given the right incentives doesn't seem to click here at all, and I can't quite figure out why. ::