General Vo Nguyen Giap is a hero

[MaiLuk]

Time Magazine has decided to name the asian heroes of the last 60 years. General Giap is named as a hero who, among other things, "triumphed" during the Tet offensive. The magazine was slightly remiss when failing to note that Giap's efforts resulted in an iron fisted dictatorship. And slightly overlooked the "re-education" camps for those heroic vietnamese who didn't realize communism was a good idea.

 

Here is the short story:

 

 

At age 95, his face is sunken and his white hair a mere wisp. But in 1954, General Vo Nguyen Giap masterminded the bloody 57-day siege against a French garrison in Dien Bien Phu in northwestern Vietnamâ??which signaled the coming end of colonialism. Fourteen years later, Giap triumphed in another epic battle, the Tet offensive, widely considered the turning point of the Vietnam War.

 

The communist Viet Minh's victory at Dien Bien Phu was the first by an Asian resistance group against a colonial army in a conventional fight. It struck down the myth of Western invincibility, led to the ignominious withdrawal of the French from Vietnam, and inspired anti-imperial forces worldwide.

 

Today, still dashing in his uniform, Giap modestly rejects the notion that these military feats made him a hero. They were merely proof, he insists, that "the Vietnamese people, with the spirit of patriotism, can do extraordinary things." True. But Giap showed them the way.

 

 

Link

[Julian2]

I remember him saying that if he lost a hundred for every one of the enemy killed he would still win. I think the final casualties were about 50 to 1.

I'll agree the retaliation on the non communists was horrific but I also believe that the NVA could have rolled through to Darwin with minimum resistance after the American withdrawal. So much for the domino theory.

[TheBelgianDog]

The myth of western invincibility was already shattered in Korea especially on the yalu and Imjin.

 

Quite simply it seems the French did not understand the lessons from the korean war (and in vietnam Americans forgot it too), the fact that a poorly equiped army accepting very high casualties and leading a large-scale guerilla warfare can beat a western army when they are able to choose the conditions of the battle.

 

About rolling to Darwin, psychologically it was certainly the case (although the australian expeditionnary forces did very well in vietnam)

But vietnam lacked (and still lacks) an amphibious force.......

 

Anyway, the main merits of general giap was to understand the mistakes he made and correct them.

 

The fact he did not win the battle of Na san (which had a similar configuration as dien bien phu) made him correct his mistakes.

 

So did he in vietnam when he lost battles on open ground.

 

Cheers

[Julian2]

Thanks TBD, he was a good general I must admit.

I think the myth of western invincibility was well and truly put to rest by the Japanese Imperial Army in World War Two. The sight of thousands of European POW's being marched into camps made a lasting impression in Asia where the colonised nations refused to accept their former masters back when the Japanese were defeated by superior technology and air power.

The "rolled through to Darwin" quip meant that the whole of SE Asia was there for the taking if the Vietnamese Communists had wanted it.

[bust]

Thanks for the link MaiLuk. Aung San gets a mention as expected but to see Massoud get a mention was a nice surprise. A great leader who some think was instrumental in keeping al-Qaeda reletively quite for along time and the Taliban in check. I find this quote interesting "The struggles between bin Laden and Massoud are emblematic of the divisions in the Muslim world between militants who advocate violence against the West and those who favor peaceful coexistence. Massoud's Islam was a moderate kind of fundamentalism leavened by tolerance for others. The world will be a much safer place if Massoud's vision wins out."

[Neo]

He deserves to be named there and dien bien phu was a magnificant victory.

 

Remember that vietnam did not want communism, but freedom. They knocked on America's door first, but Truman ignored Ho Chi Minh over and over again. They tried to hold elections, but the US blocked this peaceful democratic solution because they knew Ho would win easily. In the end, vietnam embraced communism as a means to become free since the "free" nations were the ones keeping vietnam in shackles. Also interesting is the vietnamese didn't think too highly of russia/russians after the war because after it was over, soviet assistance disappeared. vietnam entered the war as the richest SE asian nation and emerged out of it as the poorest.

 

Oh, and when talking about kill ratios, most people seem to forget the NVA were taking on allies that included koreans, thai's, french, and the south vietnamese--not just Americans!!! The allies sustained huge losses, particularly among vietnamese fighting on the allied side. Strangely, most people only count how many US and NVA casualties and it is quite misleading.

 

[elef]

Giap was IMO the greatest general in the 20th century with victories over France, USA and China.

 

Also Cuba didn't become marxist-leninist until after Kennedys trade embargo. But he waited to sign the law until he had a delivery of cuban cigars - btw those preembargo cigars are allowed for both trading and smoking.

[Sukhumvit]

The Viets are communist in name only now.

Same as the Chinese.

 

 

[Flashermac]

<< Remember that vietnam did not want communism, but freedom. They knocked on America's door first, but Truman ignored Ho Chi Minh over and over again. They tried to hold elections, but the US blocked this peaceful democratic solution because they knew Ho would win easily. In the end, vietnam embraced communism as a means to become free since the "free" nations were the ones keeping vietnam in shackles. >>

 

Ahem ... "H� Chí Minh embraced communism while living in France from ca. 1919-1923."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh

 

 

 

p.s. I'm reminded of a former colleague from Vietnam. He isn't young enough to remember the war and grew up with children whose parents had been on opposite sides. He told me the kids used to ask sometimes, "Why did we have to fight that war?" They meant the one between North and South, since most of the casualities were caused by Viet vs Viet. He told me the parents from the south told them one thing and the parents from the north said another. The children "just wanted to know the truth".

 

[Flashermac]

<< Fourteen years later, Giap triumphed in another epic battle, the Tet offensive, widely considered the turning point of the Vietnam War. >>

 

 

Yep, it was the point at which the NVA and NVA suffered such heavy casualties that they were not able to launch another major offensive for 6 years or so.