PhordPhan Posted November 3, 2001 Report Share Posted November 3, 2001 There've been some great ideas posted here. Maybe somebody will have the guts to implement a couple of them. I really like the one about the shorter dance sets. 20 minutes is way too long. About the lap dances, though, I wonder. I had a really weird experience with one. Maybe somebody could help out and tell me what I did/didn't do wrong. My first time in LOS Mrs. PhordPhan and I stopped into NEP on our last night in BKK before going home. I can't, for the life of me, remember which bar we stopped into, but I think it was on the second floor. It was packed. Sat on one of the banquettes along the wall, watched the dance, started chatting with a bg, bought her a LD. (All the bg's loved to chat with Mrs. PP everywhere we went.) Anyway, another bg comes up and starts chatting with me. She was somewhat attractive, tall, relatively speaking, and thin. I buy her a LD as well. She's laughing, giggling, flirting and acting looney. (I didn't know about YaaBaa then, but she probably had had a snootful). Anyway, she hops astride my lap and starts a lap dance. She's throwing her head back, giggling and enjoying herself. The other BG went absofuckinlutely ballistic. I thought there was gonna be blood on the floor, some of it mine! The bouncer (a real swishy guy with long, beautiful hair, a lisp, wearing a kimono that just barely hid a body of solid muscle) came zipping over and calmed things down. The nutty bg headed for tall timber and I never saw her again. I finally tracked down the first bg, waied her and apologized. All she would say is "you no make it here! OK to have fun but you no make it!" Mrs. PP and I left soon after for calmer pastures. We had a pretty good laugh about it later. Two tourists getting the crap beat out of them in a bg catfight. So was it the lap dance? Two bg who hated each other? Some stupid newbie mistake? PhordPhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 3, 2001 Report Share Posted November 3, 2001 J22J, interesting take on things. Point 1, yes, it pays to make an informed renting decision... Points 2 & 3, uh, wasn't she moist when she first found you? Assuming here that you acquired the girl just after her previous dance shift and not off the floor. Yes, I can see the appeal of a little "alone time" to drink it all in and the bonus of "anticipation" of her return. But there's no reason you couldn't ask the girl to go dance a little more "just fo you" withthe promise of another drink, in which she'd get a percentage, and maybe a little tip from you when she returned. Pasathai, there's must be some Mafiasoic code between bar owners, but I don't think it would extend quite to this level of day-to-day operations. It probably ends at drink prices, non-recruiting agreemnts and non-interference among hello girls and touts. I can't think of any solid reason for the "I go dance" methodology. It's probably just mindless regimentation and only makes it easier to track girls to make sure they're dancing all their assigned shifts. But I'd dare say that on any but the macro level [getting punters into the venue] dancing does not make one baht for the bar in the long run. I've seen it stated that since dancers' salaries are so poor, the cost is really incidental to total operating expenses. Cost of beverages, rent, bribes and utilities have to be 90% of thecost of doing business. So no one really pays attention to this cost factor. Unfortunately, as it does hit the bottom line to one degree or another, no one seeks to improve the cost-benefit ratio. What would really be required would be a careful study to see if punters spend more money with a girl or without. My guess is that the answer is almost certainly "with". In general, men drink most with other men, but still drink more with woemn than they do alone, I believe. Plus throw in lady-drinks which are almost pure profit and it seems obvious that a punter alone is poison to the cash flow and profit. The caveats here are that you'd have to study this to be sure, and that you'd have to switch to low-sugar lady-drinks: if the girl doesn't have to "go dancing now" she has little excuse to abandon her drink unfinished. Maybe downsize the lady-drink glasses and switch to Tab or sparkling water with fruit juice. This wouldn't be such a bad idea in any event as it would me more suggestive of having a cocktail with a girlfriend than buying a whore a Coke. Your comment "having a bar that is run for the patrons, not for the convience of the staff is great" is very much on the mark. The consumer is never overtly commoditized in any succesful entertainment. Even Disneyworld, the most artificial experience on the planet, sends everyone home with a genuine fun feeling. When the punter feels like he's in a venue to be sold drinks and whores, the battle with mediocrity is lost. Ranger, you probably are playing the game just as you're expected to. But if the girl hung out with you, could make a little conversation, enjoy watching the other dancers with you, would you not get a slightly different scenario? I think you'd be much more likely to spend more cash and I also think that having more time with the girl would more likely result in a bar fine. I can't speak from personal knowledge [sadly] about the "Eden Experience", but it certainly seems to have a following who market the venue better than the owner ever could. Same with Long Gun. The whole point is that they are selling the sizzle, not the steak, and other people pass this along. I doubt that there's any external pressure to keep other venues from breaking away from the pack as well. Just a lack of risk-taking, innovation and R&D. A full redesign of a venue could be moderately expensive, but with the basic light and sound package in place it's relatively cheap to just recostume the girls and re-dress the interior, signage and promotionals. The worst problem would be resitance to changes in operation, probably from the Thai managers. GatLos, excellent concept! I'd go the extra few blocks to get my hair washed by a naked girl, then a tidy trim while watching lesbians go at it. RanmaD, "you think too mutt". ;-) Seriously, very good observations and questions! One at a time... 1) I've seen some places clear half the stage, move half the girls up and backload with new dancers, but not many. Often the stage is too small to make rotation-by-halves practical or desirable. But where it can be done it should be done. The biggest downside is that a punter who's got eye contact working with a dancer at his end of the stage loses the girl halfway through the set. Unless, of course, if you use the open-stage method and let the girl go to him mid-set. Another problem is in stage design. Most larger places have two rows of poles evenly spaced in two straight line, with the poles about 75% of the way from the midline of the stage to the edge. The result of this is that with a full stage, each girl can only dance to her side and end of the stage or about a quarter of the seats. The optimum solution might be to kep the poles in two lines but stagger them [such that they form a sawtooth pattern when viewed from above] and move them closer to the midline. That way each girl can work both sides of the pole and both sides of the room, givingher coverage closer to 50 or 60%. Then if you use rotation-by-halves, each girl covers the entire room during her shift. If, as in my comment to J22J above, a punter is more likely to want a girl to visit him immediately after her dance shift ends, you thus have every girl being seen dancing by every punter. When the shift ends, the girl ha seither just finished or, in half-shifts mode, is still fresh in his mind. 2) Agreed. If you're going to the trouble and expense of paying for bottomelss, get more mileage out of it. Make sure the punters see the crack or it's money for nothing! 3) Shocker? Awkward, plug-ugly and obese? Yes. Your algebra is probably correct, and the "zeroes" should be shown the door -- they don't pull and are effectively useless. The clumsy, merely fat, and the plain-but-sweet can stay, since they have some overall utility. 4) The number system is a bit de-humanizing, but more efficient than asking for the girl with the black hair... Sorry to be a bit snide. But you could change the tone -- instead of asking for number #42, ask the name of #42 and the nask for her by name. The issue conduct is one that really needs to be addressed in the training process. 5) Most bars should just ditch the show altogether. It doesn't draw and doesn't make money. Best left to the few places which can produce these pageants succesfully. 6) Others addressed the lap dance very well so I won't go on at length. Suffice it to say I think it would require you to police the customers which is not the sort of atmosphere you want, IMHO. 7) Yes! Rightsizing the dance corps and floor staff is crucial as is instilling a customer-first attitude. I'd add here that amicable co-operation between the two groups is essential. I remember some NEP bar or other from last year where the tension betwen the two camps -- dirty looks, snippy comments -- was so obvious you felt embarrased, as though dining as the guest a family having an argument. 8) Another yes. Finger foods, salty snacks: a menu that makes punters drink more, in essence. 9) Procurement should always be a component of the service staff's duties and the punter should be told this -- preferably twice: by the inside greeter and the waitress -- as soon as he's seated. 10) Here! Here! The cost-benefit on this is outstanding! Go a step farther and include health education while you're at it, plus what you might call "Falang 101" or "cultural sensitivity training". 11) There was a take on this on another Thailand nightlife board recently, but I'll defer to Heer Sanuk's wishes and refrain from mentioning which one. The ratio of black bars to white bars seems to be at least 10:1. Mostly because black covers a multitude of sins... Hides the girls' flaws, a darkened customer area lowers their inhibitions while dancing, adds to the clubby [or quasi-legal] feel, etc. Truth is, you could probably move more towards grey and keep a lot of the benefits above. The red lighting on the girls is a bit much as it makes them look unnaturally orange from a distance. I've always thought that the presentation of the girls was bad anyway. Ditch the red lights and go to a swinging white spot. The light will move on and off too quickly for the eye to pick out anything but the good bits. ;-) In seriousness, suggestive selling should have a place alongside the hard-sell. I doubt you'll be able to do do too much about seating and stage placement. Most places have very limited space to make any serious changes. Tiered seating is probably as efficient as your can get and the stage [usually] has to be it already is. No disrespect intended, but I think a co-ed dance-floor is an invitation to disaster. Unless they arrived together, I'd want to keep alcohol-fueled, testosterone-charged punters as far apart as possible. It might work in a high-end white bar where other factors like drink prices or a cover charge could weed out the rowdies, but I wouldn't do it. A meaningful profound changes might be all it takes. Lookit, the way to solve the problem is to begin by figuring out what people want and here's my take: The owners and managers: more money, less hassles The dancers: more money, better conditions [probably incorporates "less cock per baht"] The punters: more and easier fun, less "buyer's remorse" hope bold works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted November 3, 2001 Report Share Posted November 3, 2001 quote: Originally posted by GatLoS: Â While we're on the subject of new ideas. One I've been thinking about after some of the posts I've read, and talking to an ex-bg in Pattaya I've come to know fairly well whos running a beauty salon now. How about a Barber Shop A-Go-Go? Exotic haircuts for the pampered male. Sexy girls, disco music, dim lights. You pick your "service girl" via either a fish bowl, or some other means, a body wash, you put on a robe, she takes you to a "private barber chair", while you get a hair cut (from a real barber I think). She can start the pampering, i.e. maybe a little massage, manicure, pedicure, shave/facial. Ending up her washing your hair while nude?, and what ever else you need at that point. Maybe even a couple of girls to "help" service you. Some friends I've mentioned it to like the idea. I've always thought getting your hair wash by an attractive woman is a big turn on. Feel free to use this idea, just let me know if you do, and I'll be one of your first customers. GatLoS I'm not here for a long time, just a good time.[/QB] I heard about a few places like that in New York city and elsewhere, it was along the lines of lingerie haircuts, you pick the hair stylist, the outfit etc... it was quite expensive as I recall, never partook, the price put me off. Also, I don't think "extras" were an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2001 Report Share Posted November 4, 2001 Wow! this turned into a great subject, so many good ideas. Lets hope some of the sensable bar owners are paying attention. About the haircut idea. If the customers hair did not grow so fast, how many repeat customers would you get? I think the main profit maker is repeat customers, not the one time spend-a-lot types. ( or as in the rip-off bars) get all they can from the tourists, and don't care if they come back.. lap dances, sounds like a pretty good idea on the surface. I don't know why the bouncer or other staff would interfer. ( especially with all the stuff that goes on anyway) I think getting a dancer ( lap) to know just how far to go to get here customer intersted ( horny) enough to bf her would be the objective. or even "warm up" lap dancers that get the customer to the point that they are ready to choose a girl ( and quickly ) Over the years I have come to prefer the small beer bars anyway, seeing dancers or a show gets old real fast. At the smaller beer bars ( outdoor type, or pubs open to the street) there is way more one on one fun with the girls, and much more drinking too ( for us anway). About snaks, I have seen very few popcorn machines in bars. I think the smell of buttered popcorn, and saltyness would really sell lots of drinks. most of the peanuts I have seen offered on bars had a "recycled" look and taste to them. I think giving out something free may go aginst the grain of thai managers thinking. One of my favorite bars used to be the "clinic" bar in patong. not really fancy, but the owner ( Noel) ( moved back to UK last I heard) always was there, very friendly, and always passing out kamakazies for all. ( sometimes a little too freely, as most nites ended in everyone totally crocked). but his being there every day kept things "wentern style" none of the petty scams and so on ever crept in. Â also, about the girls getting nakked on stage and not being "sensual" doing it. I think it is a face matter, they got to look unhappy about it or loose face. ( or may not like doing it and it shows). I wonder if the bar owners ever consider asking the girls what they think would make things better for workers and patrons alike. ( probably get the "up to you answer" though) Â Running a bar ( or any business ) should be a win/win situation. finding things that benifit the customers and owners alike. I think finding things that the customers want and like first, and then figuring out how to make it pay is the way to go. Going at it with the "how can we extract the most by doing the least will never pay off in the long run." Keeping things on a friendly level, not and advisarial basis ( us aginst them) has to be the way to go. In my busiess, I try to make the customers happy, feel they are getting a good deal. and if not take care of it. Â In some places ( not just bars) its the "if you don't like it, tuff shit" attitued. ( this holds for businesses and customers alike) once word gets around, the business will suffer or the bad customer will not be welcome back. I think if we ( ppl in general) go into a situation with the idea in the back of our heads we are going to be ripped off or mistreated it shows, and may actually make it happen. Â I hope this subject stays open for a while, great reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangcock Posted November 4, 2001 Report Share Posted November 4, 2001 Well Ranma500, You made some good remarks, but this is Thailand and in Thailand people don't think like people in western countries. By the way, yesterday i got a nice lapdance from a girl at the Midnite bar. It's not a standard procedure, but if you look around well enough in a bar and you get in contact with the right girl you can get a lap dance. Look out for the girls which really move and dance when on stage. Most of the time they will dance on your lap, but you've to initiate it. And it's for free unlike in the USA, this is also Thailand !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man at Work Posted November 8, 2001 Report Share Posted November 8, 2001 quote: Originally posted by jack22jack: Actually, I like it when they "go dancing now". It gives me a chance to: - Check out the other talent - See how my newfound friend moves her body - Enjoy the ambience of the bar with the knowledge that my chosen one will soon return, her smooth mocha skin warm and slightly moist from her onstage exertions.. J22J [ November 03, 2001: Message edited by: jack22jack ] Ecco my friend, thats the way it goes!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 The best arrangement I have seen for moving the girls about on stage is where they simply move one pole to the front at the end of each track. Rock Hard when it was in Clinton used this method, and I have seen it in a few other bars in BKK and Pattaya. It means that no matter where you sit in the bar you have a good chance of "admiring" each girl as she is sure to come to your part of the stage eventually. This sytem is also flexible and easily adjusted to allow for girls who leave the bar or start at later times. Keep the good ideas coming! DocM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotover Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Sarisin: One thing I hate in the the Thai nightlife scene is the phrase, 'I go dance.' Just after you buy the lady a drink and you are getting comfortable, off she goes to dance for 20 minutes. So, you can sit there and wait for her, show interest in another lady, or leave. What do you guys think about this crap? Have I read somewhere before that the bar will will fine the dancers if they are not on the stage when their turn comes up? Shotover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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