thalenoi Posted October 6, 2001 Report Share Posted October 6, 2001 Well, I am glad to read that some "western" factories pay their workers a decent salary as mentionned by William. It's even hard to believe that's true. And yes, it is sadening to know how some Thai workers have to work 10 to 12 hours 6 days/week for a meager 100 baht/day, Really revolting [ October 06, 2001: Message edited by: thalenoi ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 quote: Well, I am glad to read that some "western" factories pay their workers a decent salary as mentionned by William. It's even hard to believe that's true. When I worked there, the biggest problem we faced in our JV was the local Thai partner. He refused to comply with enviornmental, labour and safety laws. He insisted on promoting incompetent relatives to positions of authority. He refused to pay decent living wages. It was a constant battle. Our partner, a local and very wealthy Thai-Chinese businessman, viewed the lives of his workers as disposable, and could give a shit about destroying the environment of his own country. He also thought it was his "right" to sell product from companies he controlled to the jv company at inflated prices, and was rather miffed when we put an end to it. So miffed, in fact, that he had an ex-pat manager arrested on bogus charges (refusing to pay a bogus invoice.) We learned some very valuable and expensive lessons. Even though our former partner's businesses are among some of Thailand's largest NPLs (non-performing loans), I don't think he learned a thing. He was quoting in the papers six month's back as saying that George Soros caused the financial collapse. He is also a big supporter of the current government. There is a reason why the Thai economy is and remains a fiasco. Corruption is just not a viable business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whosyourdaddy Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 quote: Originally posted by William Ginzer: I am sure the anti-golobialization types will hate to hear this, but the average monthly wage for a factory worker in an IBM factory in Thailand is just shy of THB 40,000 per month. Yes, 40,000 baht. [ October 06, 2001: Message edited by: William Ginzer ] Hmm IBM and seagate seem to be on par in the computer industry.. But the 3 girls I know working in Khorat's seagate plant were making 10x less than that. Maybe I should suggust them to go to IBM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuytrede Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 It would be nice if William would clarify what kind of "factory workers" he is talking about. Certainly not unskilled labour. Wages for unskilled labour are in the 100-200 B range (per day). Skilled labour (but "skilled" means more than just an university degree)can indeed earn surprisingly much. But I still don't believe those 40,000. Engineers earn less than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 I doubled check my figures - it is the total average for an entire subsidiary (which also provides services which will raise the average), but that total does include factory workers. My apologies. This is highly skilled labor, but the actual factory workers will be paid lower than the amount I quoted. Bear in mind that multinationals will pay substantially higher than local firms. From past arguments with certain farangs resident in Thailand (and presumably earning low wages) and anti-globalization types, I know this sort of information is often not well received. It does not fit the prevailing mythology of predatory multinational corporations. I know that in our old Thailand heaquarters office (I don't work for either IBM or Seagate) that we were paying secretaries at least twice what the local firms were paying office managers. And we probably got three times the value. The gaps are really that large, and that is why Thais prefer working for multinationals over local firms, if they get a chance. (The policies of the current government are reducing such chances.) Multinationals, for example, promote on the basis of merit rather than last name. Seagate, which was mentioned above, is a good example of that. If you don't believe me, ask Dr. Piemsomboon. And I doubt very much that Seagate is paying full time factory workers THB 4,000 a month. Give me the correct legal name of the subsidiary that actually operates this factory, and I can find out, and the information will be much more reliable than any bar girl hearsay. [ October 07, 2001: Message edited by: William Ginzer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 Hi There, McDonalds & Burger King are good for reference worldwide on Salaries and prices of food. So a Big Mac menu costs 80 Baht. and the wager is 23.60 Baht per hour. Yes with a normal working day of 7 hours 6 days a week you have exactly 991.7 Baht after one week. You can compare it with MacD. in the states or Europe. a worker has to work 3.5 hours to pay her own Big mac menu. Actually it not differe that much worldwide ... strange enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 WG’s figures apparently stand corrected, but I really don’t think it matters. I have worked for firms controlled by Thais and Western multi-nationals, and I would pick the latter without a moment’s hesitation. Western companies not only pay better, but they also honor their word. I speak from some rather unpleasant experience. I think Bangkok Phil provides the best example of the difference between “western” and “Thai-Chinese” business practices in his description of his “encounters” with his Thai-Chinese landlord. I have not dealt with Thai-Chinese in the same rarefied atmosphere as Mr. Ginzer, but I doubt they act very differently than the characters I have met at my level. In other words, they act like, and have the ethics of, Bangkok Phil’s landlord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whosyourdaddy Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 quote: Originally posted by iuytrede: But I still don't believe those 40,000. Engineers earn less than that. Yes, I know 2 recent graduates of B.Eng (chemisty) they are on 35,000 plus comm. One of my students father is a engineer with shell. I estimate he would be on at least 120,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 To All, While I agree that these wages, 100+ baht a day, seem very low to the westerner, I think they are very close to being real wages for an untrained, unskilled, unschooled, common laborer, and in keeping with the cost of living and expected standard of living in most of Thailand's cities and rural areas. Bangkok, being higher in cost of living, it is a low wage if you live in the city of Bangkok, but in the rest of Thailand this is about the average daily wage for an unskilled laborer. A laborer on a rice farm makes about 100 baht a day for 9 to 10 hours of work, with an hour's lunch break. Back breaking labor this is too. What would you pay an unskilled laborer yourself if you were the owner of the business? More than the going rate? Why? The problem is is that farangs see these wages and say "Holy shit! I'd never work for that kind of money for 10 hours a day!" Well, yes you would if that's all you can get. If you have no saleable skills, no higher education than the 6th grade, no marketable trade, then you haven't much choice do you? And the employer has no real obligation or reason to pay better. He has a vast pool of unskilled labor to hire, willing to take the job at that rate of pay. A stitcher in a clothing factory makes about the same 100 baht a day, as does a laborer for a construction company. A taxi driver can make more, if he hustles and works, but most of them rent their taxis daily and pay all the fuel costs. If you guys have also noticed while ovr there in the LOS, most Thai's do not tip, or if they do it is a very small tip. Only the farang are the big tippers. It's not really a Thai custom. I've talked to a lot of Thai's about their earnings, this is an average daily wage over there--for unskilled labor. 100 baht a day is not"sweat-shop" pay. And 9 or 10 to 12 hours of work a day is average there. Makes you realize if you think about it that a working girl getting 2000 baht for a long time is making damned near three weeks pay for one night's "work". Makes one see how a poor lass from a poor rice farming family can even consider doing the job. By their standards working the bars is extremely lucrative, and can make a huge difference in the standard of living of her family, even if she only sends home to Mama and Papa one night a week's wages. (If Mama and Papa don't gamble and drink it all away.) She can also live in Bangkok or Pattaya quite handsomely (by their standards anyway) on one night's earnings a week. What amazes me is how free spending some of these ladies are with their money earned. If most of them saved what they earned diligently they wouldn't need to work very long in the trade before retiring with a nice nest egg, and never having to work again in their lives, after a few years working a bar and taking a few short times and a couple long times a week. So the average yearly wage for a poor rice farm laborer (not farm owner--laborer I'm talking here) is about 32,000 baht. About 800 US dollars a year. It's no wonder their daughters think we're all rich falangs!! We'll spend more than that in one week's vacation whoring and drinking!! :-) Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 William Ginzer, could you please clarify the amount earned in a month by the average factory worker in an IBM plant in Thailand. I should imagine it's a lot less than 40KB/month. My TGF wants to know.(So do I) TIA blackie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.