Guest lazyphil Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 i realise zionism predates the nazis and the jews have wanted a place to call home for some time. but the aftermath of the holocaust forced it to happen so quickly without putting enough planning and thought into it. modern israel was caused by germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 It would be interesting to speculate on how the Zionists would have established Israel without the Holocaust. It definitely gave it a major impetus. The main factor IMO was the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WW1. So really it's the Turk's fault for picking the wrong side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lazyphil Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 but turks are muslims so that really opens a can of worms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 but turks are muslims so that really opens a can of worms! They are. But they also consider themselves part of Europe. They backed Germany in an attack on Russia which got them into WW1. Ataturk was the one to establish secularism in Turkey after WW1 ....he was also the one who ceded Syria and Palestine to Britain and France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianTroy Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 ct if your nazi forfathers hadn't bullied the jews we would not have this on going crisis in the middle east year in year out. your mess you lot fix it. while this is not true, I don't get it why you people are so faszinated with the nazis / living in the past? I know it is fun for brits in some way of black humor, however.. and i mean that in the sweetest possible way.. it makes one look incredibly dense, No offense please, take it from someone who really doesn't give a shit about the German past. This whole Nazi talk is only making a funny point when you don't know enough about it. Nothing to joke about happnend in that era, people died and suffered painfully, children have been murdered and raped, please tell me what triggers an Englishman to joke about it? It is honestly beyond me. The conflict is a little older than 60 years, try 1200 BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lazyphil Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 no offense, takes more than that lol....i was not joking. i dont joke about the holocaust. the holocaust speeded up zionism way too fast, forcing the issue when much care and planning was needed, this was just not given to a beleaguered britain to slice up a little country for the jews at that time. it was always doomed. the nazis caused this regardless of how long zionism had been brewing. why you donâ??t care about your german past is beyond me. hey the brits invented the concerntration camps in the boer war, the nazis perfected them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 no offense, takes more than that lol....i was not joking. i dont joke about the holocaust. the holocaust speeded up zionism way too fast, forcing the issue when much care and planning was needed, this was just not given to a beleaguered britain to slice up a little country for the jews at that time. it was always doomed. the nazis caused this regardless of how long zionism had been brewing. why you donâ??t care about your german past is beyond me. hey the brits invented the concerntration camps in the boer war, the nazis perfected them. The natzis got the blame, but if you read some of the newspapers of the 1870's, there was a lot of hatred for the Jews in Russia at that time. Even during World War II, the USA did not allow Jews to immigrate to the USA as Jews. One ship of Jews did dock in New York City. The Jews were wisked away to a camp near the Canadian border for the duration of the war. The Hollocast Museum in Washington DC tells this story and other rotten things citizens of the USA did toward the Jews. We have to remember, the Germans lost so they got the blame but there were a lot of other parties that helped cause and fuel the Hollocast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lazyphil Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 <> the jews have had it with hatred towards them, they've finally taken a stand (i've never understood why in the camps they didn't rush the guards and attempt escape, surely they knew their fate) and got some land and want security, stupid place to try and have it under seige surrounded my muslims. wasn't madagascer on the cards once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogueyam Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 ...stupid place to try and have it under seige surrounded my muslims. It is not completely stupid to return to the place to which your people have spent 2000 years praying to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted January 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Actually phil I think we would. Zionism predates the Nazis. But without the Holocaust, the fledgling state of Israel might not have got nearly as much sympathy. Would it have survived the 1948 war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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