Guest Posted August 13, 2001 Report Share Posted August 13, 2001 Well I'm going to try and wangle it for me at least......... I suspect that this will not be useful for many people on this board, but bearing in mind that from previous postings that their appears to be guys on this board with above average wealth AND also those who spend a lot of their time in Thailand, then feedback from either or both categories would be welcome. As some of you may recall from previous postings, I am based in Jersey, UK (between shagging my way around Thailand ;-) and work in the Offshore Finance industry. Recently I was dozing through a marketing plan at work and a new buzz word / phrase woke me up:- "designing solutions" -. The gist of this is that rather than just trying to sell the products and services which just suits us (the usual banking M.O!), we look at niche areas and come up with ideas to solve customers problems......... and then of course try and make money from it! Anyway you may be wondering how this relates to shagging prostitutes in Thailand.......... Well, next week I am going to put a proposal forward that as well as offering the usual offshore "tax efficient" services to expats or wealthy individuals (basically anything from bank accounts / credit cards to managing investments within Trust / Company structures and most points in between) that we look into tailoring our services to expats in Thailand. I appreciate that it is not a massive market to aim at, but as these "tailored" services are very very similar to our existing services in other jurisdictions then the additional cost to the bank of "tailoring" them is fairly small and the cost of running them would be the same. Whilst I appreciate that their is nothing at all unique in this the "problem solving" aspect will relate to the provision of Thai resident companies whose purpose is to "work around" the Thai visa requirements using the cheapest and minimum TOTALLY LEGAL methods and also the same for property holding. Depending on circumstances the Thai company could be "topped" off by an offshore structure. Again their is nothing unique in this - their are plenty of companies who will do this, but the point is that it will be offered by a major international bank (who won't be going bankrupt!) and not only will you be dealing with people who speak your own language (not just English) who KNOW what they are doing and who you can trust will only "exploit" legal loopholes and not land you in the shit by doing anything illegal, but you will be dealing with people who if they mess things up for you - can of course be SUED in the west! This may well be a comfort when using "proffesional" Thai services including Thai nominee shareholders as the bank will engage Thai based accountants, lawyers and other proffesionals (so they are still liable for any Thai fuckups) - or depending on the circumstances just provide introductions to reputable firms / people for folk to deal with direct. And of course having a major bank and reputable Thai firms "behind" your company should help prevent the Thai authorities having an UNJUSTIFIED go at the company as the bank would have an interest in defending any company who was attacked in order to protect it's own position as well as yours. Now I appreciate that their are a lot of details yet to work out (ie most of them!). But I envisage that pricing of the Thai end of things will be competetive with existing legitamate providers as most of the "donkey work" will be done in Thailand by Thais, although supervised / agreed by the bank in Jersey and with the bank only making money on any "offshore" work that they can then obtain from customers. Of course as well as "visa" and "property" companies their is no reason why the bank cannot be a "one stop shop" for "real" Thai companies (go on, buy a bar!) and indeed the more work this generated and international spread of things the better as it would fit in nicely with a lot of our existing areas of business. Anyway, what I am after are firstly thoughts on whether obataining these services in "one stop" from a trustworthy major international bank and not locally would be of any interest and secondly what other services an Expat in Thailand would like / need his offshore bank to provide - in order that I can expand the proposal. Assume for the moment that cost is not an object! Finally, although I am obviously NOT in a position to promise anything - if things did go ahead I would try and get some advertising spread around - although of course anything with a name along the lines of "ANALTHAISEATSCAT.COM" would probably not be the right image for the bank :-) BTW in case you are wondering what my interest in this is........ well, I would be trying my damdest to get sent out to BKK on expenses to research things and then to help set things up! - Of course even if it turns out to be a none starter all that "research" will still be on expenses! And don't worry I WON'T be involved in running things if they do get set up - in fact my plan is continue moving around various banks - so their is no reason why I can't try and sell the proposal again and again and again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gummigut Posted August 13, 2001 Report Share Posted August 13, 2001 Personally I don't think you will have much luck, but I do wish you the best. The few folks who do have money usually already have someone to handle their money for them. Secondly, if they are doing it for tax purposes then they wouldn't deal with a major international bank but a major bank at one of the frienly island countries. Word of mouth is more of how business is done in that part of the world. As to giving your services that special competitive edge by having it tailored to Thai expats, you can't do it unless you have a Thai person involved, that you trust, comes from the right part of society, and also has the right connections. You are talking immigration and legal services so you would definitely have to have a Thai partner. Would you go into business knowing that have 51%? Sorry, I don't mean to rain on your parade, but just brainstorming. If I missed something, let me know, cause I'd be into offering legitimate professional services but I can't see how you can make money this way. <<burp>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2001 Report Share Posted August 14, 2001 Hi Gummigut, Thanks a lot for the response. No problem "raining on my parade"! Firstly I think you misunderstood me, this is not a proposition that will be run or in any way owned by me. It will be 100% owned and run by an international Western Bank - (not a high street chain LOL). My involvement will - hopefully! - be just setting things up for the Bank in Thailand on expenses :-) BTW it will be run from one of the Bank's offices in one of the "freindly Island Countries" - probably in Jersey where I am based - but not necessarily here. Regarding the 51% Thai ownership of the business I take your point about needing to deal with Trustworthy Thais, but I am operating on the basis that their ARE legitimate Banks and firms of Accountants and Lawyers etc in Thailand who the Bank can deal with! (bearing in mind at the various banks I have worked at over the years they have always managed to find such firms in surprisingly out of the way locations I think it is a pretty safe assumption - especially bearing in mind it would be an ongoing relationship with a major Bank and not with me at all) Indeed whether the Bank would actually need to set up a company in Thailand itself and need a Thai partner with 51% is something that will need looking at - it could well be that the Thai end of things could be set up on effectively a "sub-contracting" basis. The whole basis behind the proposal is regarding this 51% Thai ownership and the fact that it understandably worries most Farang. However these worries should evaporate if they deal with a Western Bank who will not only arrange the 51% with trustworthy locals - but the Bank will be responsible (and ultimately sueable in the West) if things go pear shaped (ie the locals run off with any assets!). This is standard run of the mill stuff we do in other countries - and is not all just done by blindly trusting a local firm - we make sure that the locals have in practice as little actual power / control over anything as possible in order to limit the Banks exposure BEFORE we even start to rely on contractual obligations or God forbid! Trusting anyone. (actually this also applies to firms we use in the West as well!) Regarding having Thais with "connections", whilst I would assume that any reasonably major legit Thai firm would have a degree of clout when dealing with the Thai Authorities to get things done (ie the same as a Bank has versus an individual in the West and no need to bribe anyone), as I am looking to set things up using all 100% legal avenues we definately do not want anyone who has the "wrong" sort of clout, with "dodgy" deals and visas etc. (ie no one man band "muppet" firms in the dodgy end of Pattaya :-) The idea is that services will priced as competetive in Thailand (not neccasirly the cheapest - but neither at the premium end of the market) the same as other LEGITIMATE firms, but with the major plus of being a one stop service effectively guaranteed by a Western Bank - It will not be a "loss leader" but sold in Thai terms (so any markup will be minimal) as an extra "hook" for potential clients / customers. I take your point that many people who do have money are sorted out already - but from experiance those with money are more prepared to move or at least split their assets between banks etc than us "normal" poor mortals :-) I appreciate that demand will not exactly be enormous - but bearing in mind I am proposing to tailor existing products then the cost of the Bank setting this up will be minimal (hopefully just my drinking and whoring expenses :-) and will just be an additional "hook" to attract customers - even if the bank "only" ends up with a few extra bank accounts rather than sells any other services and effectively sells the Thai services at little more than the Thai cost it should still be cost effective - although to start making money all you need is one "good" client. Indeed whilst it would be nice to set this up in case I ever need the services - the main purpose of this excercise is get me out and about in BKK on expenses setting things up - so even if the bank then decides not to go ahead or either never gets a customer, then to be honest I do not give a shit. Of course I will dress my proposal up a bit ;-) Cheers David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 18, 2001 Report Share Posted August 18, 2001 Hi Poseiden, I was getting all excited that someone may have responded to my thread! Not hiding - honest! I have just lost control of my profile settings at the moment I'm on David66uk@hotmail.com  Basically my website died of boredom..... I had plenty of ideas about developing the site - but I just could not be bothered to put any into practice. In addition Homestead who were hosting it also proposed to start charging which tipped the balance. I was 50/50 about keeping it going, but one day just decided to delete the bloody thing. I still have the content - somewhere, so a version may return later. It's nice to be missed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai-dee Posted August 18, 2001 Report Share Posted August 18, 2001 David, nothing to do with the subject of this thread, but your web site disappeared, your email bounces, you won't accept private messages here. Why/where are you hiding? oz [ August 17, 2001: Message edited by: poseidon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ckrisg Posted August 18, 2001 Report Share Posted August 18, 2001 Regarding 51% Thai ownership, surely the major international firms ie Banks etc operating in Thailand don't go down that road. I'm thinking of HSBC, Citibank etc or do they set up subsidary operations. Ckrisg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gummigut Posted August 18, 2001 Report Share Posted August 18, 2001 Not sure how international partners of thai banks invested, but there are a whole bunch of creative ways to circumvent control given 51% ownership has to be in Thai hands. Voting rights, preferred or stocks with special rights, blah blah blah. Subsidiary operations aren't the way to go since you need to get licensed and it is much easier to buy into than to get the government to grant one to a "foreign" financial company. Regarding starting up a company, I understand the hard part is to find a trustworth Thai lawyer who will draw up good documents that you can sign (in Thai of course <<burp>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 18, 2001 Report Share Posted August 18, 2001 CKrisg, From a very bad memory I beleive that where the international banks have representative offices in Thailand then they own them 100% - however those that "invested!" in the local banks don't. Gummigut, "but there are a whole bunch of creative ways to circumvent control given 51% ownership has to be in Thai hands. Voting rights, preferred or stocks with special rights, blah blah blah" - this is what I am looking at, without the need for my bank to have it's own office in Thailand - although I am looking at having a tie in with existing banks to use their services where needed. I suspect that the whole deal will rest on whether an informed judgement can be made on how much of a gap (if any) their is between what is strictly legal and what is actually permissable. As the bank will be lending it's name to any arrangements, even if it is not based in Thailand itself, it needs to be as sure as it can be that it will not be running into problems. (FYI most countries have "anti taking the piss" measures - so Thailand is not unique in this) Maybe we could also offer our nominee services from our BVI office..... for Thai Prime Ministers - although perhaps a bit late for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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